Jimmy Akin

A reader writes:

On the Old testament i read that Elijah was ascend unto Heaven and on the Epistle of Jude 1:9 indicates that Moses was ascend too.

But Jesus said that he no one was came into heaven except himself which came from Heaven…

I’m confused enough with that, could you explain.

Off the top of my head, I can see three possibilities here:

1. Elijah and others didn’t ascend to the same heaven that Jesus came from but to somewhere else.
2. Jesus doesn’t mean for his comment to apply to all humans of all periods, so it allows for at least a handful of exceptions like Enoch and Elijah.
3. Jesus is talking about his own particular kind of ascension, which is different than those of others. For example, he ascends under his own power (in cooperation with the Father and the Spirit), but others could not ascend under their own power. They had to be carried up to heaven by divine power, so they were "assumed" rather than "ascended."
4. Jesus is talking about people who would be in a position to tell Nicodemus (who he is talking to) about heavenly things. He thus is thinking of people who are now on earth that could tell Nicodemus about heavenly things. Since Enoch, Elijah, and Moses were not at that moment on earth, they could not tell Nicodemus about heaven.

Option #1 does not seem that likely to me because Scripture says they went to heaven (Hebrew, shmayim) and because prior to the Incarnation Jesus did not have a physical form and so, as the Second Person of the Trinity, it would be equally present in all heavenly realms since he is everywhere. He is still everywhere in his divinity, of course, but at least today he has a body, so if he is in "third heaven" (let’s say) then we could say that he’s present everywhere but also present in third heaven in a special way since he is present there both in his divinity and his humanity.  But before the Incarnation he had no humanity and so it would not be as easy to say he was specially in one heaven rather than another.

Option #2 is possible since Jesus may have been speaking of a restricted group of people, such as those of his current day. Of those living in the third century when Jesus said this (John 3:13), none of them had ascended to heaven. Jesus thus might have meant, "Of everyone you have ever met and of everyone alive today, none of them has ascended to heaven."

Option #3 is also possible, though I think it’s less likely than #2 or #4.

Option #4 seems more probable to me. If you look at verse 12, Jesus sets up his statement by saying:

12 If I have told you earthly things and you do   not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
13: No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended   from heaven, the Son of man.

That question "how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?" sets up "No one has ascended to heaven." If we try to relate these two, the logic might be: "How could you believe if I told you about heavenly things? Nobody here on earth right now has ascended to heaven, therefore you’d have no way of knowing about heaven and whether what I was saying was true. If you don’t trust me when I tell you about earthly things, therefore, why would you believe if I told you about heavenly things? It’s not like you could consult Shlomo down the street and ask him what he saw last time he was in heaven and thus confirm what I said. So far, I’m the only one who’s come from there and only I can tell you about it. You’ll either have to trust me or not."

The fact that Elijah and some others had gone there wouldn’t affect this logic since they didn’t come back to tell people what they saw.

It is understandable that you’d be confused, though. This is a confusing passage. Taken on its face, it makes it sound like Jesus has already ascended to heaven, when we know from elsewhere in the New Testament that he hasn’t.

Hope this helps!

A reader writes:

On the Old testament i read that Elijah was ascend unto Heaven and on the Epistle of Jude 1:9 indicates that Moses was ascend too.
But Jesus said that he no one was came into heaven except himself which came from Heaven…

I’m confused enough with that, could you explain.

Off the top of my head, I can see three possibilities here:

1. Elijah and others didn’t ascend to the same heaven that Jesus came from but to somewhere else.
2. Jesus doesn’t mean for his comment to apply to all humans of all periods, so it allows for at least a handful of exceptions like Enoch and Elijah.
3. Jesus is talking about his own particular kind of ascension, which is different than those of others. For example, he ascends under his own power (in cooperation with the Father and the Spirit), but others could not ascend under their own power. They had to be carried up to heaven by divine power, so they were "assumed" rather than "ascended."
4. Jesus is talking about people who would be in a position to tell Nicodemus (who he is talking to) about heavenly things. He thus is thinking of people who are now on earth that could tell Nicodemus about heavenly things. Since Enoch, Elijah, and Moses were not at that moment on earth, they could not tell Nicodemus about heaven.

Option #1 does not seem that likely to me because Scripture says they went to heaven (Hebrew, shmayim) and because prior to the Incarnation Jesus did not have a physical form and so, as the Second Person of the Trinity, it would be equally present in all heavenly realms since he is everywhere. He is still everywhere in his divinity, of course, but at least today he has a body, so if he is in "third heaven" (let’s say) then we could say that he’s present everywhere but also present in third heaven in a special way since he is present there both in his divinity and his humanity.  But before the Incarnation he had no humanity and so it would not be as easy to say he was specially in one heaven rather than another.

Option #2 is possible since Jesus may have been speaking of a restricted group of people, such as those of his current day. Of those living in the third century when Jesus said this (John 3:13), none of them had ascended to heaven. Jesus thus might have meant, "Of everyone you have ever met and of everyone alive today, none of them has ascended to heaven."

Option #3 is also possible, though I think it’s less likely than #2 or #4.

Option #4 seems more probable to me. If you look at verse 12, Jesus sets up his statement by saying:

12 If I have told you earthly things and you do   not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
13: No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended   from heaven, the Son of man.

That question "how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?" sets up "No one has ascended to heaven." If we try to relate these two, the logic might be: "How could you believe if I told you about heavenly things? Nobody here on earth right now has ascended to heaven, therefore you’d have no way of knowing about heaven and whether what I was saying was true. If you don’t trust me when I tell you about earthly things, therefore, why would you believe if I told you about heavenly things? It’s not like you could consult Shlomo down the street and ask him what he saw last time he was in heaven and thus confirm what I said. So far, I’m the only one who’s come from there and only I can tell you about it. You’ll either have to trust me or not."

The fact that Elijah and some others had gone there wouldn’t affect this logic since they didn’t come back to tell people what they saw.

It is understandable that you’d be confused, though. This is a confusing passage. Taken on its face, it makes it sound like Jesus has already ascended to heaven, when we know from elsewhere in the New Testament that he hasn’t.

Hope this helps!