Yes, I know Daniel Pipes is a reliable apologist for Israeli policy, and likely biased in his assessments, but I have been surprised myself at the extent of the connections – not just ideological, but historical, political and structural – between the Islamofascists (for want of a better term) of the last half-century and Hitler’s Third Reich.
Guys like Yasser Arafat and Saddam Hussein could trace their political lineage directly to card-carrying Nazis. Fellas like Grand Mufti Mohammad Amin al-Husayni were their heroes and mentors.
Makes you wonder if Arab countries labeling Israel as the aggressor in the Middle East isn’t more brazenly twisted than O.J. Simpson and his search for the "real killers".
PIPES’ LATEST on CATHOLIC EXCHANGE.
Don’t forget the connection of GW Bush that can trace itself back to Nazi Germany.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html
One can find all kinds of political connections to Nazi Germany by people from all walks of the political sphere. It’s a rather nasty game people play when they want to do ad homimens.
Just look at how this method is used to reject Benedict!
Roy Shoeman is good on this, Tim. You know his SALVATION IS FROM THE JEWS, I’m sure.
Oh, come on, A Non… you’re saying, then, that because B16 has been wrongly slandered that NO ONE can be credibly accused of real, substantial ties to the Nazi regime?
Are you suggesting that nominal membership in the Hitler Youth (along with every other kid your age) is equivalent to learning political philosophy at the knees of a committed proponent of the Final Solution?
It doesn’t wash.
BTW, the G.W. Bush / Hitler connection is simply nothing, as the article admits a few paragraphs in;
“While there is no suggestion that Prescott Bush was sympathetic to the Nazi cause, the documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s before falling out with him at the end of the decade.”
That’s it? Must have been a slow news day.
Oh, sure, make light of the Bush/Hitler connection, Tim! Don’t you know that they were both descendants of Adam?
It is a stretch comparing Yasser Arafat to Saddam Hussein.
It is also a historical and philosophical stretch to authoritatively state that because the grand Mufti of Jerusalem had Nazi ties and was also anti Zionist (as were probably many other non Nazi sympathizers) that the present bad people (and maybe some not so bad people) in the Middle East can trace their lineage to the Nazis.
The same type of historical and supposedly logical analysis has been used against Croatian Fransiscans, and Ukrainians, and Lithuanians and many others (and some did have Nazi allegiances).
Also, to use this as evidence as who is the perpetrator (I am not concerned about who the perpetrator is per se in a broader sense but in the sense of right and wrong of individual acts and not claiming historical lineage).
The Israelis have much to answer for and have done much wrong. That does not mean they are all bad or have no right to exist or some Arabs and Muslims have done far worse.
The Jewish historians up until the recent neocon wave of (somewhat correctly) wanting a culture war between Islam and Christendom (if not an outright war)–claimed that Islam was more tolerant and the evil Europeans especially Catholics caused pogroms (in Poland for example), and the Spanish Inquisition and expulsion of Jews from Spain (that ended up in the Muslim lands) and that Jewish culture flourished more in the Islamic world and that Islam was more advanced and more tolerant–again historically debatable but a common Jewish historical belief and a knock on Catholicism.
Israel used to be 20% (or more) Christian. NOW, it is less than 2%. Israel has been terrible to Chrisitans. The rise of Hamas and other nihilisitic groups has caused a definited persecution of Christians but before the more recent change in culture and leadership there was a strong Christian presence in Israel, Jerusalem, Jericho, Nazareth, Bethlehem, and the PLO (Fatah and not Hamas or Islamic only sects) including George Habasch (with the Palestianian or Peoples Front although certainly communist influenced), Hanna Ashrawi, archbishops.
Talk to Latin Rite Patriarch Michel Sabah.
Talk to former University of Chicago director of Middle Eastern Studies Rashid Khalidi (his wife is Greek Orthodox although he is Muslim)
The use of what is known here as eminent domain, taking of property, actual assasination, collateral damage from Palestinian terrorism, no educational opportunity, discrimination, no economic opportunity, different legal and land rights.
Just because some Jews were on the side of Communists in Poland, or Lithuania or other countries doesn’t mean all are bad–even though some communists through some Jews massacred many of these Catholic ethnics. Israel was supported strongly by the Soviet Union (Ben Gurion was a Socialist and the Kibbutz project was lauded by the Soviets) as well as French Nuclear sales.
Tim J is a good artist and has some interesting religious insight–but at politics and especially the Middle East and understanding historical perspective–and who victims are is very lacking.
For a non neoconservative and co-opted Catholic (actually anti Catholic) perspective
check out:
http://www.fisheaters.com
Israel used to be 20% (or more) Christian. NOW, it is less than 2%. Israel has been terrible to Chrisitans. The rise of Hamas and other nihilisitic groups has caused a definited persecution of Christians but before the more recent change in culture and leadership there was a strong Christian presence in Israel, Jerusalem, Jericho, Nazareth, Bethlehem, and the PLO (Fatah and not Hamas or Islamic only sects) including George Habasch (with the Palestianian or Peoples Front although certainly communist influenced), Hanna Ashrawi, archbishops.
Talk to Latin Rite Patriarch Michel Sabah.
Talk to former University of Chicago director of Middle Eastern Studies Rashid Khalidi (his wife is Greek Orthodox although he is Muslim)
The use of what is known here as eminent domain, taking of property, actual assasination, collateral damage from Palestinian terrorism, no educational opportunity, discrimination, no economic opportunity, different legal and land rights.
Unfortunately, a lot of this rings true.
Here’s the EWTN video:
Crisis in the Holy Land
Christians are being forced out of their homelands; the very lands where they’ve lived for centuries (many of the present Christian families go back to 1500 years ago) due to government policies and the tremendous hostilities they suffer.
They tell of many Paltestinian Christians who are now below income. Many who no longer have jobs and can no longer feed their families due to this tragic persecution they face in the form of discrimination and hostility. This forces a growing number of Christians in that region to leave.
Though the Holy Land is the so-called Center of Christianity — it may only be that in name only.
A Lutheran Bishop, Right Reverend Dr. Munib Younam said that last year, 1300 Palestinian Christians from Bethelehem district left the area. He says that if the trend continues, there will be no Christians left in the Bethlehem area.
According to what Fr. Vasco reports, most church officials say that within 60 years, if nothing is done to stem this Christian exodus, all we’ll have is empty religious monuments and museums an no living, woshipping community.
In other words, there will no longer be a Christian community in the Holy Land — only empty churches and holy monuments.
70 new homes for poor Christians: Franciscans help Christ’s followers stay in the Holy Land
Jerusalem (Agenzia Fides) – During the Season of Lent, in view of Palm Sunday, the Franciscan Custodians of the Holy Land will build 70 new homes in Jerusalem for poor Christian families living in ever more difficult conditions of persisting insecurity and conflict.
The homes will be handed over on the occasion of the traditional Lenten Pilgrimage to a tiny village of Bethpage on the eastern slopes of mount Har Ha-Zetim, near the Garden of Olives. Here in a small Franciscan church there is a block of stone said to stand on the point from which Jesus descended to make his triumphal entry into Jerusalem, recalled in the annual celebration of Palm Sunday.
The new homes will give new hope to Christians inclined to emigrate because of poverty, insecurity, restrictions and lack of work. The Franciscan Custodians of the Holy Land wish in this way to stop the hemorrhage of Christians to Europe or America.
The problem was raised by Pope Benedict XVI when he met on February 1 in the Vatican members of the Commission for Catholic Orthodox Theological Dialogue. He voiced deep concern for the difficult situation of Christians in the Holy Land, “in the midst of such a volatile geopolitical panorama” and how they “are often tempted to emigrate. In these circumstances, Christians of all traditions and communities in the Middle East are called to be courageous and steadfast in the power of the Spirit of Christ. May the intercession and example of the many martyrs and saints, who have given courageous witness to Christ in these lands, sustain and strengthen the Christian communities in their faith” the Pope concluded.
Link:
Franciscans help Christ’s followers stay in the Holy Land
About Franciscan Foundation for the Holy Land:
Info On Franciscan Foundation for the Holy Land
“It is a stretch comparing Yasser Arafat to Saddam Hussein.”
“Fellas like the Grand Mufti Mohammed Amin al-Husayni were their heroes and mentors.” That is called a statement of fact.
Tim didn’t mention “the present bad people…in the Middle East”. He mentioned 2 formerly prominent people in the Middle East, who have assumed room temperature, who took the above mentioned Nazi-connected mufti as their hero and mentor.
“It is also a historical and philosophical stretch to authoritatively state that because the grand Mufti of Jerusalem had Nazi ties”
No, he did not have Nazi ties… he, himself, was a Nazi.
“and was also anti Zionist…”
That’s “anti-Semitic”… he believed in the extermination of the Jews, worked for that goal and encouraged others to do the same. Those people continued in his footsteps. That is a matter of fact, not speculation.
This is no guilt by association. The Grand Mufti (and he is only one) was not just a Nazi pal, he was a committed, ideological Jew hater who actively passed that philosophy on to his followers.
Some commentators need to read more ME history… try sticking to Pipes and Robert Spencer and after a while you will collect tons of historical data. Having spent some time in the ME, majored in it, an have kept track of the area for over 40 years, there’s not much Pipes and Spencer comment on I’d disagree with. There are pics of Husayni w/Hitler, Arafat (an Egyptian) was his nephew, in case anyone believes there’s no link between The Muslim Brotherhood’s founder and Hitler. If you don’t know ME history beginning w/World War 1 (yes, ONE) up to at least l948, and the gastly fumbling by the Brits and French in the 30’s, etc., etc., you’re in a fog. You MUST know background before you can even begin to comprehend what’s going on.
+J.M.J+
It wasn’t just the Grand Mufti. The founder of the Ba’ath Party, Michel Aflaq, was an admirer of Hilter who later patterned the fledging Ba’ath Party after the Nazi Party (he also supported Saddam Hussein’s rise to power in Iraq, BTW).
Mein Kampf was translated into Arabic and sold in the Middle East during the 1930’s. Modern Islamofascism is in fact the bastard child of Nazism – this is a little-known fact.
In Jesu et Maria,
“try sticking to Pipes and Robert Spencer and after a while you will collect tons of historical data” As someone who lived among Palestinian Christians for two years and has many Christian Palestinian friends, I strongly disagree with this. It is sad that Pipes has gained so much influence among American Christians, but his views on the Middle East are biased and often inaccurate. I would have to agree with the above post that the best source of information on the plight of our Palestinian Christian brethren is EWTN.
I am very sympathetic with Palestinian Christians, and all Palestinians of good will, but that has not much to do with the fact that anti-Semitic Islamofascism is linked substantively and directly with the Nazi party and its ideology.
I know Israel’s hands are dirty, and I don’t defend any of their underhanded methods, but they are surrounded by sworn enemies who make no bones about their desire to see Israel annihilated and all Jews dead or enslaved. When these people speak of “Palestine” they mean all the way to the sea… there IS no Israel to them. Isreal can never pull back far enough, or surrender enough land. Land for peace is a lie.
Are rank-and-file Palestinians decent folks like everybody? Sure. But the Palestinian “leadership” is pure poison. That doesn’t mean Israel can brag of their leaders, either, but I just don’t buy the idea that Israel is in Empire mode and “the aggressor” in the Middle East.
I DO believe that Isreal mistakenly holds a mafia-like policy – “They kill one of ours, we kill two of theirs” thinking that such percieved toughness will give them some protection. This is a stupid and immoral strategy, and hasn’t seemed to help much so far.
Israel shows signs of being jumpy and paranoid. But, as the saying goes, you’d be paranoid TOO, if everyone were out to get you.
Tim, I think you need to reconsider who the victim is here.
“I think you need to reconsider who the victim is…”
And I think that thinking in those kind of black-and-white terms is simplistic.
There are plenty of victims all around. Looking for “THE victim” and “THE aggressor” in the conflict is a fool’s errand. It is now intractable. The Palestinian people are victims of both Israel AND of their own leaders AND the broader Arab world, which cynically uses them as pawns.
I am only pointing out that Islamofascist anti-Semitism has deep roots in the Third Reich.
It is not enough that I repudiate Israel’s heavy-handed tactics, some will not be satisfied until I agree that Israel is The Bad Guy – The Bully – in the Middle East, which is bunk.
“The Palestinian people are victims of both Israel AND of their own leaders AND the broader Arab world, which cynically uses them as pawns.” I totally agree.
“It is not enough that I repudiate Israel’s heavy-handed tactics” Actually, I while I didn’t state it, I do appreciate those like you who go even this far. I too was once at that stage in my attempting to grasp just what I was seeing first hand while living there.
To different degrees, both Israel and the Palestinians are victims. One has to ask what precipitated this suffering? An indigenous people cannot be expected to just accept an often brutal occupation without rising up and using whatever means they have to rise above the daily hopelessness they face.
The thing is, William, that (as I understand it) when most of the Arab Pro-Palestinian apologists talk about “occupation” they refer to Israel’s very existence. They believe that Israel is illegally occupying… Israel. Until that little dispute is put to bed, there can be not even the glimmer of a hope of peace.
It’s opportunistic to smear any opponent of Israel’s policy with the label “anti-semitic”, and to compare the stance to Hitler. As someone (I think it was Jimmy, I can’t remember) wrote here recently, it is precisely because racism is so vile that unjustly accusing someone of racism is especially vile.
But because the anti-semitism smear is so potent, it is often used. I have an Israeli colleague who uses the terms anti-semitic and anti-zionist interchangably. But they are NOT the same thing, as can be clearly seen from the fact that there are plenty of anti-Zionist Jews. One recent example is Orthodox Chief Rabbi Friedmann of Vienna, whose children were expelled from their Jewish school after he attended the conference in Tehran.
“It’s opportunistic to smear any opponent of Israel’s policy with the label “anti-semitic”…”
Which is why I didn’t. I apply the label “anti-Semitic” to anti-Semites… ideological Jew haters and proponents of Hitler’s Final Solution (extermination of the Jews), of which the Grand Mufti was a prime example. I accuse him and his followers of racism because they are racist.
I know the difference. Are you of the opinion that there ARE no real anti-Semites?
The Arabs are also Semites.
The word Semite comes from Shem, Abraham was descended from Shem and Isaac and Ishmael are both descended from Abraham.
Therefore, both Jews and Arabs are properly Semites.
“The Arabs are also Semites.”
H’okay… Would the term “anti-Jew” be clear enough? Though you are technically correct, this is how the term “anti-Semite” is most often used, and the vast majority of people attach this meaning to it.
What’s with the Semantics Police this week?
“H’okay” is not a word.
I’m sorry, Tim; I just couldn’t resist.
Ha!
Got a laugh out of that one, bill.
I can always fall back on my old tried-and-true excuse;
“I’m an artist, not a writer, dammit Spock!”
+J.M.J+
>>>It’s opportunistic to smear any opponent of Israel’s policy with the label “anti-semitic”,
Except that we’re not doing that; one can certainly disagree with the secular nation of Israel’s policies and not be anti-semitic.
>>>and to compare the stance to Hitler.
The Grand Mufti’s association with Hitler is well-documented; is it somehow “anti-Arab” to point out that fact?
>>>The Arabs are also Semites.
Yes, but the word “anti-Semite” was coined to *specifically* refer to one who is against the Jews. It was never intended to refer to an anti-Arab person. Tim J is using the term as it is properly defined and understood; if you don’t like that then I suggest you take it up with the dictionary, because he’s using the correct definition.
>>>”H’okay” is not a word.
What!?!?!?! “H’okay” isn’t a word? Next you’ll be telling me that “anyhoo” isn’t a word, either. Sheesh! 🙂
In Jesu et Maria,
“Sheesh” is not a word.
Heh.
+J.M.J+
🙂
In Jesu et Maria,
Rosemarie:
Michel Aflaq was a Christian. Just because some people (like Joseph Kennedy father of an American President and 2 US Senators, 1 still living, and grandfather of a US Congressman, son in law a governor) admired Hitler or certain aspects of Nazism (like the Volkswagon, effective Public Housing, Autobond, accurate criticisms of International Banking and money lending–not speaking about the grave evils that were not known to everyone including concentration camps)
As well as Father Coughlin (who was accurate on usury and certain other aspects of the economy although dead wrong on Hitler and to a lesser extent Mussoloni and perhaps not as wrong on Franco) The Grand Mufti no doubt was a bad man who was a Nazi or at least Nazi aligned (the Nazis were not pro-Arab and were racist despite the fact they may have used Arabs at times and there was a common British enemy) and he may have wanted to mass kill Jews (although he did not)(the Bosnian Muslim Ustasha and SS units were not meant for Jewish extermination and have much historical nuance)
The Baath Party was founded by Christians (not Islamic terrorists regardless of historical admiration for Nazi Germany as did also the Maronite Catholic Kateab Party in Lebanon) and was a party with a pan Arab secular ideology and NOT part of an Al-Queda or Iranian Shia Islamic extremist position. There is very little nuance in understanding of Islam or Middle East.
Michel Aflaq was pro FRENCH and NOT pro Nazi.
Michel Aflaq was Greek Orthodox (born in Damascus).