Though the Synod on the Eucharist is now over, another synod is now underway.
It started yesterday and will run through this Saturday.
What’s the nature of this synod?
It’s for the Chaldean Catholic Church.
The bishops of the Chaldean Church are meeting to go over a number of important matters, including the situation in Iraq, the problem of Chaldean migration out of their homeland due to tough conditions there, the inrush of Evangelicals trying to pull Chaldeans away from their faith, their own particular law for their Church, and their liturgy.
Of these, I gather from my Chaldean friends that the liturgy is topic #1. In fact, they’re looking at what is for them a very significant revision of their liturgy. Apparently their liturgy–which is still celebrated in classical Aramaic–has undergone significant change in recent decades and there is a push to re-tradtionalize it.
This is a controversial topic in the Chaldean Church, as many like the current rite and don’t want to restore the older usages. Others, of course, disagree.
I’d therefore ask your prayers for the Chaldean synod as it meets this week. The Chaldeans are a courageous and very Catholic people who have been beset by countless hardships in recent years (and, indeed, for centuries).
They have a history that stretches back to biblical times. In fact, the city of Mosul, Iraq–where many of them live–is built on the site of the biblical Nineveh, where the Prophet Jonah preached.
Please pray that their patriarch and bishops will make wise decisions this week and that their people will find relief from all the suffering they have had to endure.
MORE INFO ON THE CHALDEAN PEOPLE.
The Chaldeans have their work cut out for them. Their Patriarch is not a very orthodox Catholic. For instance:
“[Patriarch Emmanuel] Delly said that ‘even if a Muslim comes to me and said, “I want to be Christian,” I would not accept. I would tell him to go back and try to be a good Muslim and God will accept you.’ Trying to convert Muslims to Christianity, he added, ‘is not acceptable.'”
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/22/AR2005062202335_pf.html
I confess I’ve never met a Chaldean, but if they all think the way this guy, their own Patriarch, does, the Catholic Church will be better off without them.
In my humble opinion . . .
Pardon my ignorance. But are the Chaldeans in communion with Rome or are they Eastern Orthodox?
I know they’re having their synod at the Vatican, but I wouldn’t assume that means they are part of the same communion.
Eric: After reading the article you cite, I’m mixed. I see both sides. Though it does annoy me every time I hear a Protestant say that Catholics aren’t Christian.
And I’m not sure I’d totally condemn Patriarch Emmanuel for what he says in the article. More may be going on behind the scenes that what the article presents.
But are the Chaldeans in communion with Rome or are they Eastern Orthodox?
The Chaldean Catholic Church is a Catholic Church. Read a brief article about the Chaldean Catholic Church in Ronald Roberson’s The Eastern Christian Churches: A Brief Survey (6th edition).
I do not think it was right, by the way, to rip Patriarch Emmanuel’s quote out of its original context:
“Iraqi Christians expressed fear that the evangelicals would undermine Christian-Muslim harmony here, which rests on a long-standing, tacit agreement not to proselytize each other. ‘There is an informal agreement that says we have nothing to do with your religion and faith,’ said Yonadam Kanna, one of six Christians elected to Iraq’s parliament. ‘We are brothers but we don’t interfere in your religion.'”
When the patriarch talks about converting Muslims being unacceptable, you have to consider the context of the statement. This is a region where the very lives of both the potential converts and the whole Christian minority are at stake. If a Muslim converts to Christianity, he will be murdered. If several Muslims convert to Christianity, it increases the chances that all Christians will be murdered.
If you consider the delicate non-proselytizing arrangement heterodox, fine. But please don’t pretend that there are not extreme circumstances mitigating the offense you perceive.
That’s located right across the street from me in the Muesum of Fine Arts! Woo hoo!
That’s located right across the street from me in the Muesum of Fine Arts! Woo hoo!
What, the Babylonian lion?
Several cities have ’em 🙂
Congrats Eric, you just issued a blanket condemnation against over one million people worldwide, one of whom happens to be me.
Anyways…
Chaldeans are nearly identical to Syriacs and other Middle Eastern Orthodox, but they are in full communion with Rome. The current patriarch was actually chosen by the Chaldean bishops in consultation with JPII. I’m only half-Chaldean, so I don’t know anything about the liturgical changes, but I’ve been to some Masses and weddings. There’s a lot of chanting, and the male “elders” of the church stand behind the priest and chant with him. The language used is very close to the language Jesus spoke.
The situation for Chaldeans is very precarious right now, because almost all the Chaldeans in the Middle East live in Iraq. Violence against them has accelerated since the war began, and any evangelical activity threatens to create a Muslim backlash that will completely wipe the Chaldeans out. So before you all give us Chaldeans the Sr. Joan Chittiser treatment, realize that the Chaldean community (especially in Iraq) operates as a society which is very alien to Westerners, and from a position of extreme vulnerability in a sea of Islam.
It’s one thing to say that, for prudential reasons, one will not actively proselytize Muslims. It’s antother entirely to say that you would turn away from conversion one who approached on his own accord.
What could possibly be a valid reason for doing so? Fear of offending other Muslims?!
No one but me sees this as, not only contrary to orthodox Catholicism, but also an affront to the millions of Catholics throghout the centuries that have had to shed their blood for professing the True Faith?
This is Catholicism 101! And we’re too bling to see it?!
Modernists like Patriarch Delly make me ashamed to be Catholic.
“And we’re too bling to see it?!”
That should read “blind.”
It’s one thing to say that, for prudential reasons, one will not actively proselytize Muslims. It’s antother entirely to say that you would turn away from conversion one who approached on his own accord.
The two are different, I agree. But the convert will be murdered either way, and the minority Christian community will be in the same mortal jeopardy either way.
What could possibly be a valid reason for doing so? Fear of offending other Muslims?!
“Offense” is not the issue. Fear that your entire people will be wiped off the face of the earth in horrific and excruciating ways is very different from the fear of offending someone.
No one but me sees this as, not only contrary to orthodox Catholicism, but also an affront to the millions of Catholics throghout the centuries that have had to shed their blood for professing the True Faith?
I said, “If you consider the delicate non-proselytizing arrangement heterodox, fine. But please don’t pretend that there are not extreme circumstances mitigating the offense you perceive.”
Pha:
Your logic would preclude all martyrdom!
Who was it that said, “What does it profit a man if he should gain the whole world, but lose his soul?”
You honestly believe one should not convert to Christianity if he knows such is the Truth, if doing so would entail martyrdom?
Have we forgotten what Christianity is all about?!?!?!?!?!
I *can’t* believe this!
You afraid of dying for your beliefs, Patriarch Delly? Tell that to *these* guys:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/cult-martyrum/martiri/009.html
This guy’s a poor excuse for a man, as is any Catholic who agrees with him, Chaldean or otherwise.
Marvelous. So now everyone posting on this article is a poor excuse for a man – Except For You. Eric, your comments are offensive and obscure the issues we are discussing.
The Patriarch holds in his hand the life of 800,000 Chaldeans. It is not out of line to imagine that accepting one Muslim into the faith could sentence them all (including the convert) to death. You may not agree with the philosophy, but you are free to feel that way and he is not – he has to look at the hard practicalities. Once again, you are antagonistic towards a man (and a community) you know nothing about, and then when others refuse to agree with you you insult them as well. Do us a favor and, after you get done spell-checking your next post, check it for petty, spiteful, and fourth-grade-level comments as well.
One more thing-
While martyrdom is the Christian ideal, martyrdom consists of giving your OWN life, not so much throwing away the better part of a million others’ lives. That’s called “evil.”
Your logic would preclude all martyrdom!
It most certainly does not. I am very willing to die for Christ.
You honestly believe one should not convert to Christianity if he knows such is the Truth, if doing so would entail martyrdom?
Did I say that? No, I did not. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.
martyrdom consists of giving your OWN life, not so much throwing away the better part of a million others’ lives.
Including the lives of small children and other innocents, people not even directly involved in the event.
As a martial artist, I would choose to get hurt than to defend myself. I would choose to be a martyr for my faith.
But I would not let my wife/son/innocent bystandard(s) get hurt or killed if I could avoid it. I don’t see it as a contradiction.
Martyrs weren’t the only christians living during the early church years.
You guys make me sick.
Lemme get this straight:
1) A Muslim APPROACHES THE PATRIARCH ON HIS OWN telling him HE WANTS to be baptized: “I beg you, Your Beatitude! Baptize me! I wasnt to become a Catholic!”
2) The Patriarch says, “I will not accept! Go back, and try to be a good Muslim and God will accept you. Conversion to Christianity is not acceptable!”
YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT DENYING THIS MUSLIM THE SAVING GRACES OF BAPTISM IS JUSTIFIED ON THE GROUNDS THAT HIS CONVERSION WILL LIKELY RESULT IN PERSECUTION OF THE CHURCH IN IRAQ?!?!?!?!
?!?!?!
LISTEN TO YOURSELVES! READ WHAT YOU WRITE!
I am not casting aspersions on the Chaldean community, only on those who have such a superficial, Modernistic, anti-evangelical view of their religion. I can excuse the ignorant Iraqi peasent for such irreligion – – – but the freakin’ Cardinal-Patriarch?!
He ought to convert to Islam himself, as should all Iraqi Christians who feel this way. The Catholic Church would be better served without them.
You mean to tell me that His Beatitude would rather a soul suffer damnation (in this case, a Muslim WHO APPROACHES THE PATRIARCH ON HIS OWN telling him he wants to be baptized
Oh, and here’s some commonsense:
The reason why Christians are dying out in the Middle East? . . . Hmm . . . could it be because they refuse to evangelize, or even to ACCEPT FOR CONVERSION THOSE WHO APPROACH THEM FOR BAPTISM?!?!
Personally, I think the individual who would sacrifice hundreds or thousands of innocents in order to save his own soul through Baptism is a miserable excuse for a Christian. I would rather burn in eternity for missing out on the rite of Baptism than make it into Heaven by causing the murder of another.
Also, in the throes of zeal and eagerness for your martyrdom, please remember that not all Chaldean *individuals* are necessarily Christians, and many are not willing martyrs even if they are Christian. Yet every Chaldean in Iraq is subject to this “religious” persecution (though it is really a social persecution, an extermination of a people, ethnic cleansing in the current parlance). Your faith does not give you the right to get others killed any more than it gives you the right to kill others with your own hand.
Mark:
Your beliefs are hardly Christian, and are an affront to the Church and her martyrs.
When one has a moral obligation, he is required to fulfill it, in spite of the evil that might flow from it.
I have an obligation to worship the true God in the true religion, even if my conversion will result in the death of millions.
Such a convert is not responsible for those deaths; the persecutors are. And is able, indeed we know he will, save His Church from destruction.
Eric’s right. What so many of you, and Mark most explicitly, are suggesting is that the convert do evil (of omission) so that good (the supposed security of other Christians) may come of it. No doubt if the early martyrs had taken such an “enlightened” approach to their religion they wouldn’t have been persecuted and killed. If Evangelism can be chucked, and a convert turned away from the Ark of Salvation, for security, then why the heck can’t a bit of incense be burnt to the Emperor for the same reason?
I have an obligation to worship the true God in the true religion, even if my conversion will result in the death of millions.
The good effect must also be sufficient to compensate for the bad effect, and if you could otherwise attain the good effect without the bad effect you should do so.
The Chaldeans Catholics had it much better under the Baath regime in Iraq.
The new Shia dominated government is allowing a more religious reality and a more extremist one.
Many Assyrians and Chaldeans (and other Christians) are being killed and leaving Iraq.
Iraq will have no Christians after the US invasion.
Saddam was very bad, but this new regime and reality is worse at least for Christians.