A reader writes:
This is from Newman at Carnegie Mellon U.
6. Holy Orders
In the Latin Rite, the current discipline is for only non-married Catholics may be ordained priests; however, converts to the Catholic Faith who are married may later become ordained because the Church recognizes their marriage as valid and does not want to deny them the opportunity to serve the Church as a priest if they had previously joined in marriage in another Church before knowing the fullness of the Catholic Faith.
Is this totally confused, or can I, married as a Protestant who later came to the Catholic Church (along with my wife who started Baptist), start going to Vocation retreats and consider ordination as a Catholic priest? This is news to me.
What you read is totally confused. You, married as a Protestant who later came to the Catholic Church (along with your wife who started Baptist) should not start going on vocational retreats and considering ordination as a Catholic priest. I’m sure that’s not news to you.
What the origin of the confusion is is this: In recent decades the Holy See has allowed certain married Protestant ministers to be ordained as Catholic priests as a special pastoral provision. This provision is not available to ordinary rank-and-file married Protestants who convert. It is specifically (and then only uncommonly) for those who have already functioned as ministers before joining the Latin rite of the Church.
Hope that helps clarify matters!
The priest of the parish that I attend is a convert from Anglicanism. He was a former minister in the C of E. He and his wife (and family) have had a quite remarkable impact upon the parish community…and so far, it’s all good!
God Bless.
As I understand it (always an important qualifier), the origin of the pastoral provision was to enable a smoother transition for Anglican communities to convert ‘in toto’ to communion with Rome. That is, an Anglican parish, congregation and minister together, could enter communion with Rome without having to go through more disruptive sociological displacement. It just eases the transition, I think. Same with the creation of the ‘Anglo-Catholic’ liturgy.
An important qualifier should be made: these ‘ministers’ from other ecclesial communities are always ordained upon their conversion. Their previous ordination is not recognized, according to the dogmatic position of the Church.
I can see the use of married clergy in an Anglican Use parish or an Eastern Rite parish, but I have a hard time accepting a married former protestant clergyman be ordained and placed in charge of a Latin rite parish as Ukok describes (Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is one that I have herad of in Wylie, TX).
I have difficulties for the following reasons:
First, this just seems like the camel’s nose for the gradual acceptance of a married clergy in the Latin rite
Secondly, if you accept that in the Catholic Church is found the fullness of the Truth then one should be willing to give up ones profession in order to pursue live by that truth. If you read Rev. Marvin O’Connell’s book The Oxford Conspirators, he tells how many former married Anglican clergy suffered financially as a result of crossing the Tiber during the Oxford Movement and the resultant loss of their “living.” Considering what other Christians have gone through over the centuries changing ones profession seems like a small sacrafice – after all you can still serve God and your fellow man by being a janitor or waiter as well as a priest.
I believe Jamie is correct, that it has been limited to Anglican’s with a strong prejudice for the entire (or at least a majority of) the congregation converting. Which, of course, makes it a present frustration of mine.
To Marv, remember that this is a *discipline* and therefore can be changed without any negative impacts.
It has not been limited to converts from Anglicanism/Episcopalianism. Married former ministers of other denominations have also been ordained.
I realize it is a discipline and can be changed, but I deny that the changing of disciplines do not necessarily have negative impacts. For example, “meatless Fridays,” while the intent behind the changing of this disciple may have been to treat the faithful as adults able to choose their own penance to perform on Friday it has merely resulted in most Catholics not performing any sort of penance at all on Friday – I consider this negative.
I believe that there would be many negative aspects to a married priesthood. It helps us all to have a Christ-like example of self sacrifice. I really do not believe that one can be truely dedicated to ones flock and ones family at the same time. Finally, I for one would be extremely reluctant to go to confession to a married priest. Yes, I realize that he takes a vow that he will not break the seal of the confessional, but I also know what the relationship is like between a man and his wife and the probability for pillowtalk which will probably involve his work.
Hi Jimmy,
I don’t suppose there are any sort of statistics available on this: how many from what denominations in what year sort of thing? Were the other denominations all “high church” sort of denominations? Or were they any Baptists or Methodists? What about less formal denominations, or even sort of anti-clerical, like Brethren? What if you are an “elder” in an anti-clerical denomination, “ordained” merely by the laying on of hands of other elders in New Testament fashion? I can’t see Rome going for that sort of thing.
Jimmy,
You’re right. I didn’t mean to imply that the provision was limited to Anglicans, only that this was the initial reasoning behind the provision. The doors have not, however, been ‘flung open’ to any and all comers. I have heard that certain Lutheran ministers have been permitted. I know of no tradition besides these. Do you?
As I understand it, only those converting from a denomination that has ‘ordained’ ministers can take advantage of this. Baptists would not be included since they don’t really ‘ordain’ their ministers (even though they sometimes call them ‘ordained’). Baptist ministers only have to go to a seminary or college to get the proper degree, then be elected by a particular congregation to become a minister.
Seems an odd distinction since the Catholic Church does not recognize the ecclesiastical communities of many of the former protestant ministers involved to have valid ordinations unlike those of the Eastern Churches or other churches and groups such as SSPX.
By the way I am not saying you aren’t correct. It just seems an odd distinction.
Is any of this spelled out anywhere, or is it all more-or-less informal, case-by-case, nothing in writing?
If none of the “ordinations” of Protestant clergy are considered valid by the Catholic Church, and hence they are “ordained” upon conversion in these cases, why would an Anglican convert be prefereable to a Baptist convert? Is the invalidly ordained, invalidly celebrating not-Eucharist Anglican preist somehow better for the Catholic Church than a less liturgical, perhaps more charismatic Baptist pastor?
And, of course, all those ordained women (Episcopalean, Lutheran, etc.) are out of luck and need not appply.
The whole things seems so fuzzy.
Below is a website run by a former Methodist Minister now a candidate for the priesthood in the Diocese of Gary, Indiana
http://www.myspiritualadvisor.com/
[As an aside, I can’t help but note that he and his family attend Little Flower Parish in So. Bend (adjacent to Notre Dame) which serves as the CSC’s liturgical laboratory. My protestant in-laws live close to Little Flower and I once went to Little Flower for mass. Knowing my proclivity for orthodox religous ceremonies they said they were surprised I went there for Mass since even they as memebers of the United Church of Christ thought that Little Flower was a little extreme. They could have used a copy of Mass Confusion.]
God bless these folks for entering the Church but they should enter respecting the traditions (and disciplines)of the Church and not try to change them for their own benefit. Married men now have another option besides the priesthood – the permanent Deaconate -if they feel the call to preach and administer most if not all of the sacraments.
Official information, with rough stats and some contacts, are here. Seems a bit outdated, though. Also, it only mentions episcopal clergy. I have heard of rumors, as I said, that some Lutheran communities were included, but I know of no others.
…if they feel the call to preach and administer most if not all of the sacraments.
Well, you mean most and definitely not all. By virtue of their share in sacerdotal ordination, permanent deacons cannot, nor will they ever be able to, administer the sacraments of penance or Eucharist, nor can they (of course) adminster ordination, nor for that matter, confirmation. The sacrament of healing, because if involves penance, is additionally excluded. So, two sacraments – baptism and marriage – which is not quite most. (And don’t get Jimmy going about how, canonically, situations exist when laypeople can carry these out too).
I’m not denigrating the office of the permanent deacon. I’m just trying to restrain the popular image of them as ‘demi-priests’. We already have the looney left suggesting that our burgeoning number of permanent deacons can make the need for priests a moot point.
The pastoralprovision.org site that Jamie mentioned is interesting. The “Who’s Who” lists:
Ecclesiastical Delegate: His Eminence Bernard Cardinal Law
Secretary: Reverend William H. Stetson, J.C.D.
Consultant: Reverend James A. Parker
Theological Consultant: Reverend Romanus Cessario, O.P.
Rev. Romanus Cessasrio, OP, is also editor of the book “Boston’s Cardinal” from June 2002.
Rev. William H. Stetson is director of CIC, appointed by Cardinal McCarrick in May 2004. His CIC bio says, “Since 1983 he has also served as consultant and later secretary to the Ecclesiastical Delegate of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for the Pastoral Provision for former Episcopal priests, by means of which over seventy men have been ordained for service in the Roman Catholic Church.”
It seems a bit of a stretch, then, that the Diocese of Gary lists Mark Kurowski, graduate of Duke and an ordained Methodist pastor, married with five kids, as one of it’s “men who are answering the call to priestly service in the Diocese of Gary” in it’s current Vocations newsletter.
http://www.myspiritualadvisor.com/aboutme.htm
http://www.dcgary.org/pastoral/vocations/January-March,%202005.pdf
Apparently he was not ordained upon conversion, but is studying for the priesthood.
I don’t get it. But I’m not his bishop, either, so maybe I don’t need to get it.
But if we now are sending married-with-kids former Methodist ministers to seminary, then why not former Baptist ministers, or Mennonites?
Jamie, sorry, you are indeed correct. Two sacraments are indeed not most.
A very comprehensive history of the “Pastoral Provision” can be found at St. Mary the Virgin Parish, a Pastoral Provision Anglican Use parish.
GreorgiaBulletin article (Apr. 1992) about Fr. Dye. Interesting limitations on ministry mentioned.
[block quote]
Notification of Dye’s approval for ordination was communicated to Archbishop Lyke in a March 3 letter from Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. The letter reaffirmed that Dye’s request was in accordance with the church’s pastoral provision addressing the ordination of married Episcopal clergymen in the United States.
It also reiterated conditions for the ordination of married priests, including a prohibition of remarriage in the event of a wife’s death and assignment to administrative, social or educational work, rather than full-time parish duty.
Although his wait for ordination to the Catholic priesthood has been longer than expected. Dye said it has been fairly easy for him to “just shift gears and minister as a lay person.”
For the past three years, Dye has served as campus minister at Georgia State University. He will continue in that capacity after ordination.
[end block quote]
WallStreetJournal article (Jun 2001) on Fr. Hurd of San Antonio.
NatCatRegister article about Eric Bergman in Scranton, PA (Feb 2005).
And Diocese of Scranton press release (Jan 2005).
PBS story on “Priests with Wives” (June 2001). Fr. David Medow was a Luteran Pastor.
I still don’t understand what the former Methodist is doing in the Diocese of Gary, however.
I was raised in a Southern Baptist household, although I was baptized as a Catholic at eighteen, and I can tell you that Baptists do indeed ordain ministers. Their concept of ordination in different from the Catholic concept, but they still do conceive of it as in some way setting a man apart to serve the church. It is to be distinguished from the Baptist practice of “licensing” preachers, and both are to be distinguished from hiring a pastor.
Marv,
You are correct about Wylie, Tx. However, the converting members of the Episcopal parish that split were informed at the time that they might not be able to continue as an Anglican Use parish in the future, due to diocesan need to place their priests elsewhere. Two priests serving one tiny congregation was not considered a practical use of resources.
St. Mary the Virgin, another example of whole parish conversion, is in the neighboring diocese of Fort Worth.
As an Episcopalian who converted on my own, I was never a big fan of the Anglican Use (my belief, from experience, being that it’s fatal to Anglo-Catholics to give them special status) but my thoughts on this have mellowed over the years.
I don’t think it is fair to the Congregation of Holy Cross (CSC) to tar them with a broad brush based on one parish under their supervision.
Those who are interested in a fuller discussion of this subject may find details, including history of the pastoral provision, relevant documents, a list of married priests with dioceses and dates of ordination in my book: CALL and RESPONSE, ORDAINING MARRIED MEN AS CATHOLIC PRIESTS (2002). While the great majority of married converts have been former Episcopalians, a smaller number have been former Lutheran, Methodist and Presbyterian. This year marks the 25th anniversary of the Pastoral Provision. Great Britain and Canada have similar provisions. E-mail me for further info.
I am a former ordained Baptist minister, and have been Catholic for about 8 years now. While I have the utmost respect for celibate priests, I do not think that (Scripturally) the call to Orders should equate to a call to celibacy. Peter was married, as were most priests (and bishops) for nearly 1000 years.
I do wish that former evangelicals could be admitted to priestly formation. Not only would I jump at the chance, but I know at least a dozen ministers who would convert immediately if they could be priests. Why should the “pastoral provision” be limited to men from liberal denominations that disagree with the Church on most moral issues?
If anyone knows of a former evangelical (Baptist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, non-denominational) minister who has become a priest, I should like to get in touch with him.
In Christ,
Michael Matthews
Triumphant Ministries
Michael Matthews asked for information about a former evangelical ordained a Catholic priest. There was recently a convert from the Charismatic Episcopal Church who was ordained after attending seminary. I am just observing, but the issue for most non-Episcopalians and Anglicans is the necessity for a seminary formation experience that is similar enough to the Catholic seminary formation. That may be a problem for some Episcopalians and Anglicans, too. Many Catholic dioceses do not have a seminary close by, and the thought of sending a married student to a residential seminary with his wife and children may be a bit too difficult to imagine.
How does a married protestant minister become a catholic priest?
What is a Vocational Retreat?
Thanks, kerry
I am a an ordained minister in an idependent convergence movement church. We are alot like the Charismatic Episcopal Church. I am the son of a pentecostal pastor. As I was introduced to the sacramental church I found myself in dire need of repentance. I had no idea that the way I had worshiped God all my life had nothing in common whatsoever with the ancient church. I am finding myself at a crossroad. I am no longer a protestant but a Catholic at heart. I am torn up. I was wrong because I was lied to about the catholic faith by ignorant evangelicals. I would join the the catholic priesthood and attend whatever seminary they required, but I am married for almost 18 years and have a wonderful wife and 2 children. I believe in the sacrament and permanacy of marriage. I have found a catholic diocese (Non Roman) that seems to have valid apostolic succession, they allow married priests. I was recently cross ordained a deacon and soon a priest through that organization. I fear that it may not be enough to satisfy my conscience. If I cannot find an answer soon I may be forced to step down from ministry for my own peace of mind. I have no doubt that I have been called to, and have served in the ministry for several years now. I have no doubt that the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox faith are the only valid holy catholic and apostolic church. Here in lies my dilema. I am considering permanent deacon status. If you can offer insight please po back.
Hi this is for Phil Taylor (or any other ordained ministers), you asked about being married and being a priest in the Catholic Church (Latin Rite). If you are already ordained in to a ministry within an independent continuing church/denomination then you can take advantage of something like the Pastoral Provision Program (I know of Anglican, Lutheran, and Non-Conformist ministers being ordained into the Catholic Church). By this program I am lead to belive that once you have a Bishop to sponsor you then you will start the short process to becoming a Priest in the Catholic Church. Hope this helps!! Chris Mc
There are 2579.11 parishoners for every Catholic priest, including monastics who are supposed to be cloistered. There is no way that a priest can minister to 2500 people in a given day, week, or month. How can this be a good thing?
Then you have this escape clause in which because of the plummeting numbers of priests, former Protestants are allowed to be ordained when married. It is a slap in the face to cradle Catholics who had to make a choice between marriage and the priesthood.
As far as the sacrifice is concerned; doctors, businessmen, construction workers, truck drivers, railroaders also have to work long hours and are even gone weeks at a time. So, the argument that the priesthood would put undue pressure on a marriage is fallacious at best. I know a married priest in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and his marriage is as strong as ever. Not only that, there are generations of married priests in the Greek Catholic Church of Slovakia who can attest that the priesthood and marriage are not diametrically opposed.
As far as I am concerned, I cannot defend an entirely celebate clergy in good conscience anymore. I used to debate and use apologetics to defend an all celebate clergy, but those polemics no longer make sense. Having one priest for every 2500 Catholics doesn’t make sense when only 30% of Catholics believe in the Real Presence of Our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ in the Eucharist anymore. The people are not being Evangelized anymore since the priest shortage.
An all celebate clergy may have worked in the 17th Century but its time is past. We live in a post-Christian era.
As a United Methodist pastor, it was actually the conversion of my systematic theology professor from seminary that got me interested in Catholic theology. As I began to study and speak with officials in the Church, it has become more and more apparent that the Methodist Church, which John Wesley never intended to start as a separate denomination from the Anglican Church, did not have true apostolic succession and it lacked the supervision and authority that is found in the Catholic Church. Looking back at Luther’s original 95 Theses, it’s apparent that what caused the rift between Protestants and Catholics should be healed and I still feel called to the ministry, even though I’ve been married for 24 years. Regardless, I am glad that there is a provision to allow for the ordination of Protestant clergy to Catholic Priests and God’s one true church can once again be unified.