A reader writes:
I recently came across your blog and had a couple questions about China and Catholicism. Before coming to China (I just arrived recently), I tried to go to Mass a few times each week. I wonder what sacraments are valid and what Masses are actually available to me in Beijing. Do you know whether the Chinese Patriotic Church Mass is valid, or how to find those "underground" Masses?
Okay, first things first: Your name (which I withhold per my usual policy of anonymity) indicates that you are clearly of European background.
As a result, whatever you do do not attempt to go to Masses of the undreground Church in China.
DO NOT MAKE INQUIRIES ABOUT THE UNDERGROUND CHURCH. DO NOT GO TO THEIR MASSES. DO NOT HAVE ANY DEALINGS WHATSOEVER WITH THE UNDERGROUND CHURCH.
The fact that you have white skin means that you will draw the attention of the Communist authorities to any members of the underground Church that you attempt to contact, so stay away for the sake of your fellow Chinese Catholics. If you draw attention to them, they could land in prison or worse.
As a result of the foregoing considerations, you are excused from your Sunday obligation as long as you are in China. You do not have to go to Mass on Sundays or any other holy days of obligation.
This does not mean that you cannot go to Mass. You can, but it will need to be with the Patriotic Church or (if you can find one) a state-approved Easter Orthodox Church.
The Code of Canon Law provides:
Canon 844
ยง2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the [Catholic] Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.
There is some ambiguity about the canonical status of ministers of the Chinese Patriotic Church, but no matter what this canon would allow you to attend Masses (and go to confession and receive the anointing of the sick) in their churches, since they have valid sacraments (as the Vatican acknowledges).
Therefore, you can go to Patriotic Church Masses–even several times a week if you wish–just DO NOT attempt to make contact with the underground church while you are there.
I have this on good authority from underground evangelists in China. As a white person, it simply is not safe for our brothers who are members of the underground church for you to attempt to contact their communities!
20
Good for you for pointing out the importance of not endangering the underground churches in China.
However one bit of useful advice that you neglected to mention is that if he is in southeast China and can get to either Hong Kong or Macau the Catholic churches there are not Patriotic and fully in communion with Rome.
–arthur
When attending a Chinese Patriotic Church, is one obligated to ignore the collection bag?
i kinda think that those with real knowledge of the underground church in china would not disclose vital information about same to unknown white guys asking dangerous questions. still, why make trouble for people by even implying (by one’s merely asking) that they might be in league with UC.
Thanks for this Jimmy. My family with a large group from our Tae Kwan Do school are visiting China and South Korea this summer. I will be there on a Sunday and had been wondering about Mass. My ability to wander will be sharply limited but I’m glad to know in the case of emergency I could ask for a priest with confidence.
Jimmy, I understand from your explanation that Catholic canon law permits Catholics to obtain the sacraments from Eastern Orthodox ministers, but do the Eastern Orthodox themselves permit this?
I don’t think they’ll ask for ID….
No, they likely will not ask for ID. However, we should not fly false colors, i.e., allowing the Orthodox priest to believe you are a member of his church by not telling him you are a Catholic. Ordinary politeness dictates letting him know the truth and asking his permision to receive the sacraments from him.
Do the Eastern Orthodox themselves permit this?
To my knowledge, no. And it would be as inappropriate to knowingly receive communion from the Orthodox as it would be for a Protestant to receive it from the Catholic Church. Our reverence for the valid sacraments of our Orthodox brethren should carry over to a respect for their law and sacramental praxis. We can certainly attend mass, but should not receive communion (since reception of communion is not required for the satisfaction of one’s Sunday obligation).
When attending a Chinese Patriotic Church, is one obligated to ignore the collection bag?
As an immigration lawyer, I have helped a number of Chinese Catholics through the asylum process. Some of them report that you actually have to pay admission as a condition to even enter to some of the newer churches, in order to recoup the expense of construction. This applies to tourists as well as worshippers. This helps drive Catholics underground (cf. Mt 21:12), in addition to the “Jesus was a Maoist” sermons they have to endure.
I can also stand as a second-hand witness to some of the tortures experienced by the underground Catholics, which include incarceration, beating and regular “check-ups” to make certain that you are not doing anything “counter-revolutionary.” Such an incident erects a barrier to employment, at least in the short-term, and employers can be held responsible for your “mental health”. Leaders of the churches face severe beatings and a long-term stay in a reeducation gulag. It is particularly dangerous in rural areas.
what about if you’re an asian person (not chinese) how does one go or find an underground mass?
“…how does one go or find an underground mass?” One doesn’t, for the same reasons Jimmy enumerated above.
“what about if you’re an asian person (not chinese) how does one go or find an underground mass?”
anon, what do you want? a phone number from a rolodex of ‘Secret Contacts’ in Communist contries?
“what about if you’re an asian person (not chinese) how does one go or find an underground mass?”
Nice to see the chinese government visiting Jimmy’s blog.
Those wacky Communist authorities.
Isn’t the “underground Church” not that underground after all? I thought it was publicly known where the Churches were, and the government largely tolerated them, with periodic symbolic crackdowns. Or is this a hidden persecuted church?
Dom Bettinelli wrote about the church in China recently with some links to articles about the church in Catholic World Report. Didn’t sound like it was tolerated to me. Definitely worth a look.
Also check out the Angry Twins blog specifically their glimpse into the Underground Church.
Something to consider when we’re bugged by a Lord’s Prayer handgrabber impinging on our right to worship.
Isn’t the “underground Church” not that underground after all? I thought it was publicly known where the Churches were, and the government largely tolerated them, with periodic symbolic crackdowns. Or is this a hidden persecuted church?
Persecution waxes hot and cold, just as in the Roman Empire before Constantine.
Jimmy, it wasn’t clear to me from what you’ve written whether or not, outside of circumstances where one’s life is in danger, it is permitted by Canon Law to request/receive the Sacraments from priests of the Chinese Patriotic Church. In other words, is the CPC considered schismatic? If so, then wouldn’t the same rules apply as do, say, to the SSPX? Mr. Peters, can you weigh in on this question?
I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear in my last post: assisting at Holy Mass in a CPC parish is one thing, it would be quite another to receive Holy Communion or Confession in those churches if they are indeed schismatic. I am asking specifically about the latter.
I dont think schismatic would correctly define the Patriotic Chinese Church. Since the communist formed it outside of The Church and wasn’t “birthed” fropm within. They have appointed their own Bishops and ordained their owm priests. I am sure it is only for the souls of the faithful, That Rome even has back door discussions with . Are those faithful that attend a PCC mass in sin? Why do they noy just avoid it all together if the status of sacraments is suspect? China continues to defy by appointing more Bishops..Would not a clear excommunication of the Patriotic Church help the faithful? I known there are delicate nuances to situation and the safety and treatment of the faithful is of grave concern.
Just as a P.S…Didnt Our Connie Rice attend a Mass on her vidit to China??????
As a Catholic living in China (who has even been interviewed by Voice of America on the subject of Sino-Vatican relations, which means less that I am a real expert and more that they were just a bit desperate), I endorse this post.
Your average CPA church priest has not renounced Rome. Take, for example, the priest who says the English/French Mass at the Southern Cathedral in Beijing – his first Mass as a child was when he was the altar boy for the parish priest, in the late 70s (when the Church was still illegal), who had just got out from more than ten years in prison.
It’s not compulsory to join the CPA until one becomes a bishop (and this is even more of the controversy, which I don’t see getting much airplay recently), and even many of the CPA member bishops have privately reconciled with the Pope. There’s no certainty, but then when is there? In general, you can be pretty much OK at the parish level.
As for Bishop Michael Fu of Beijing… well, let’s just say I don’t attend Mass when he’s celebrating it.
I am an Oregon Catholic who attends Protestant Christian services as well. I also receive the sacraments at the SSPX church here near Eugene — even though they (SSPX) tell me not to attend Protestant services. Recently I attended Confession & Mass at the diocesan Catholic church in this same town — but I did not take Communion because of ladies administering the Sacraments, who actually come to church in blue jeans and then add a surplice[sic?] over them. I told the priest in Confession that I prefer the SSPX because they teach morality and sexual distinction (equality with distinction), which St Paul teaches in ICOR 11a & I TIM 2.12. As Jesus commanded Peter in St John — ‘What is that to you, you come follow me.’
Now, I am helping [online] a young lady, a Chinese friend in Shanghai. Her Mother is Christian in a farming community in the ajoining Province north. She asks me, ‘Do you go to the church often?’ She may ask me about finding a Shanghai church to visit and ask questions — shall I advise, or not advise, her toward the Chinese Patriotic Church, which is boycotting the treacherous ‘ DiVinci Code’ and which states, correctly in my view, that the Church ought not to be staging opposition to the Tianamin Square tragedy — because that is not obeying Jesus’ command to leave governing to Government [‘Caesar’], the which the American Catholic Bishops and also the SSPX have not been willing to do re the difficult Iraq decision (which had to take into account the eyes of Libya, North Korea, Iran, et al) and illegal Immigration of non-assimilating ‘subjects of foreign powers’.
Now, I have little hope that you will agree with my position, but hope instead that you will agree with its legitimacy (respect my conscience in these hard thought-out positions of a Catholic born closer to the 19th than to the 21st centuries)! None of us ought to be immune from admitting error, no matter how much we might have ‘staked’ on our errors, including myself, howbeit.
The Question remains, if you are willing, and the refreshingly bright posters at this forum, May I legitimately advise the young lady to visit her local Chinese Patriotic Church to view Christians in action and to receive Mandarin answers to her Christian questioning ? (As you can see, I, as many others, have little patience indeed for the delphian ambiguity often heard from Catholic teachers !)
Respectfully & darned earnestly, if you’ll appreciate the spirited candour, yet also cordially, with ‘best wishes to your noble family’ —
Brooks Batson
Veneta, Oregon
Hello there,
As the great Olympic Games are approaching, I was wondering what will Roman Catholics do in China to attend Liturgy Services? Will they attend the Patriotic Church that is in Schism from Rome, and commit Communicatio in Sacris?
Well, this topic of Intercommunion with a Schismatic Sect really made me think.
THAT WOULD BE DISASTER FOR THE OLYMPIC GAMES!!!
And then, the other day, I received this wonderful advertisement covering this topic from a TRADITIONAL Roman Catholic Theological position. I wanted to share this book with all Chinese people, but all tourists who may be going to the Summer Olympics and will be worried about going to MASS (Byzantine or Latin Tridentine, and any other Rite). Here is a clip about this Theological Opus Magnus:
“Communicatio in Sacris is a Compendium of Roman Catholic Doctrine on the subject of Intercommunion with non-Catholics. This book produces the overwhelming theological consensus for the Dogmatic Teaching condemning Intercommunion with non-Catholics, putting together a treasury of Sacred Scriptures, Church Fathers, Doctors, Saints, Theologians, and Popes who have written on the matter. This book also covers the Theological Controversies, Scandals, and Hypocrisies of how so-called Traditionalist Catholics and pseudo-Orthodox have openly communicated in the sacred with those they consider the Heterodox and yet have tried to justify their actions. This book, not only reveals their crimes, but it opens the door for anyone to understand what the Roman Catholic Church has always taught on this subject, namely, that it is forbidden for Catholics to join non-Catholic Communion.”
http://www.lulu.com/content/1431544
http://www.vladcatholic.com
I hope Catholics – all Catholics – who wish to remain truly Christian will read this book and understand this Great Dogma on “Communicatio in Sacris” and this Schismatic Crisis in China and abroad.
Sincerely in the Christ Child,
Merry Christ’s Mass (Christmas)!
A Catholic Wanderer
P.S. I also wanted to wish all a very Happy New Year, and there is this site for Catholic Latin Books, and also Tridentine Liturgy Books. Hard to find in CHINA I AM SURE!!!! CHINA NEEDS TO EMBRACE THE LATIN WESTERN IDEAS BY READING GREAT BOOKS! Please share, and also we want to share our knowledge, but please share with others this knowledge, and we hope to learn from you all!!!!!!
Enjoy & Peace!
http://www.geocities.com/stjeromescave