I’m looking for the best word or words to express a concept. Maybe y’all can help me out.
Y’know that argument we’ve been hearing from President Bush and numerous others that there are "jobs Americans won’t do" or "aren’t eager to do" and that’s why we need a permissive immigration policy?
Yeah, you know the one. . . . the false and insulting argument.
It’s false because there aren’t any jobs Americans won’t do if you pay them enough (same as people anywhere).
But it’s also insulting, both to Americans and non-Americans.
It’s insulting to non-Americans because it implies that Americans are so high and mighty that they can’t deign to lower themselves to perform certain jobs, so we need lowly foreigners to come here and do them for us.
It’s insulting to Americans because it portrays them as . . . what exactly?
Stuck up immature babies?
Snobs?
I’m looking for the best term of contempt to apply to persons who consider themselves too high and mighty to do certain jobs.
The term or phrase should have as much emotional punch as possible (while being within the bounds of polite discourse; no cuss words!) and being short and pithy ("stuck up immature babies" may be too long).
Adjectives that describe the attitude of such a person could also be useful.
Any help would be appreciated.
Muchas gracias, mis amigos!
Silver-spoon-fed slackers!!
bloated and lazy Bourgeois
**Bourgeois in the aspect of “Held to be preoccupied with respectability and material values. American Heritage Dictionary Fourth Edition.*
It seems like everyone wants their children to be doctors or lawyers.
Elitists or aspiring elitists.
If the previuos is too long, how about,
“Indolent Bourgeois”
I suppose if you modify it to say, “Americans and Europeans used to be willing to do hard and dirty work for low wages, but now they’d rather go on welfare. Other folks from outside the country are willing to do the work for the low wages that Americans used to do it for before they could rely on welfare. Perhaps if we kept all those people out more effectively, wages would get very high in those areas, we’d all pay a lot more for everything that they’re connected to and Americans would be willing to do them again. But since businesses don’t like that and immigrants don’t like that and consumers don’t like paying lots more money for goods and services, we probably won’t get the chance to see.”
That seems perfectly accurate to me and not insulting at all.
But I can’t really tell for sure if you’re being ironic or not.
The word “effete” springs to mind.
As a blue collar fella, all I can say is I have seen with my own eyes that Americans will do every job known to man, or figure out a way to automate it if necessary.
Add illegals into the mix and all you get is zero incentive to innovate. How un-American!
Now to topic…
Lazy buggers?
Oh, come on. We all know perfectly well that Americans of certain socioeconomic and educational backgrounds look down on blue collar jobs. In the neighborhood where my family lives, it’s perfectly acceptable for a high school or college kid to work in a blue collar job, but everyone expects “better” of someone who has a college degree, certainly of someone who has a graduate degree. Let’s not pretend like there aren’t plenty of Americans who think they are too good for blue collar jobs.
For my part, I wouldn’t want a blue collar job, not because I feel I am above such a job, but because people who take on such jobs are treated like trash.
They are members of the “Pharaoh Class”. They are Pharaoh class citizens (or Royal Class?)
I almost want to say use the word “mother” because this is the lowest paying job that is not given much respect by many in society. Even some children will not truly appreciate their mothers until they become parents. But all the hardworking mothers that I know would say the occasional hug and kiss from their children is payment enough.
How about “high-falutin’ bozo?
Entitled.
And some mothers get plenty of whine.
Jimmy,
I think that the word you’re looking for is “hoity-toity”.
Most of us are children or (children of children, etc…) of immigrants. Our forefathers came here and most had to take the menial jobs that no one else wanted. Now that we’re so far removed from the sacrifices that they made for the betterment of their families, it’s okay for us to consider ourselves too genteel to stoop to the level of taking those jobs. Or so the argument goes.
I think the word you’re looking for is “foppish.”
“Haughty”
Degradation inflation?
Wastrel projection.
Investors’ income protection.
Mexican labor subsidies.
It portrays Americans as being too precious?
It also is simply not true. There are over 30 million unemployed Americans, and I don’t know how many teachers and college students eager to do those summer jobs.
Granted, they want to be treated according to the law. They won’t work for 50 cents and hour and give sex in exchange for a job, they’ll insist on bathroom breaks, lunches and getting paid, but they will do the jobs.
At least out here in the Red Counties.
Jimmy,
I normally love your work and I do agree with you regarding the wrong interpretation of the CCC by some Bishops on the immigration issue.
However, I do disagree – I think in general there are jobs that Americans won’t do. Whether you pay them or not, we have created an entitlement society so that many Americans that are out of work choose to stay out of work than take a job they would find degrading. I have first-hand experience with this. My mother went without working for a few years after my folks divorced and lived off alimony because she couldn’t bring herself to taking a job that wasn’t up to her standards. I see it time and again around some of the small towns by where I live, people scoffing at those that are willing to work at jobs that are “beneath them.” You’ll never catch me doing that.
Most Americans don’t want to pluck ducks. It’s one of the largest industries around here. Most Americans can’t make goods like RVs at a rate that allows the manufacturer to charge a price that will sell. People bemoan jobs moving offshore but then refuse to buy American goods.
My father in law is a former union member that gave us a hard time when we leased a Toyota instead of a domestic vehicle. Then he found out that the Toyota was assembled in the US and more of the parts were made in the US than in the Ford he would have rather we bought. When it came time to shop for a new TV he went to the specialty electronics store, used all the advice he was given about what to buy, then shopped around for prices and bought from a competitor because it was cheaper and then complains about the lack of service at the “big box” stores.
Americans have become used to having it all at low low prices. The fact is that in order to accomodate American demand for low prices manufacturers have sacrificed domestic production and service. It’s a harsh but true reality. We don’t get good service or products made in the USA because we don’t demand them, we just demand low prices.
On the immigration front we are paying the price right now for years of lax enforcement of our current laws. My hope is that we do secure the border. I hope we find some solution that has some concensus on dealing with those illegal residents that have already made it through. My great fear is that this issue has become so polarized that there is little chance of either taking place in the near future.
Uppity!
I’ve cleaned toilets and picked up trash. I know people who are gardeners for a living. People with college educations do do these things.
Now, granted, most people move up and out of these jobs. But they aren’t bad jobs in themselves; they are jobs with dignity. They are best done as starter jobs or inbetween jobs, but there’s nothing wrong with that.
Re: duck plucker
This sounds like a classic “job on a writer’s resume”. 🙂 The jokes alone would be worth it. “I worked that job to support my kids. Yes, I was a real mother plucker.”
Does the duck plucker factory take care to make the job safe and healthy? Does it promote an esprit de corps among the workers? Does it provide incentives for current employees to recruit new ones? Can employees listen to their own music, or are there other things to alleviate boredom and keep duck pluckers alert and interested?
If an unskilled position can be learned quickly and kept on average for three months, and the employees tell other people it’s a good place to work, there’s usually plenty of employees. Lots of turnover, but that’s not a big deal. (Ask Mickey D’s.)
Hoity-toity’s good. High and mighty. Too big for their britches. Swelled heads.
“Dignified” would be my term.
There are over 30 million unemployed Americans
Puzzled, do you have some data to back this up?
The last I looked, the unemployment rate was around 4.7% (http://www.bls.gov/) Now using some rough math 5% of 180 million adults 20-65 years (http://www.census.gov/) that would make 9 million unemployed. I think you are off by a factor of three.
Most economists claim that 5% unemployment is an indication full employment.
“Fortunate.”
I always cringe a bit when the well-meaning, good-hearted, high school kids at my parish in a very wealthy suburb talk, on their way to Confirmation, about their work for “those less fortunate.” For these kids, “those less fortunate” than them probably describes 98% of the people on the planet. So they have lots of opportunities for social justice work.
I’ve held many jobs through my life which, today, probably are held by the immigrants which are the subject of these discussions.
I was a graveyard shift dishwasher in a 24 hour restaurant. Come in to work at 11:30 to a kitchn piled to the ceiling with dirty dishes and pans from dinner. Get the place clean before the breakfast rush. Been a cook in a few places, and worked in a factory weaving steel wires and rods into screens and grills (from tennis nets to rock quary screens, 10 hour days from 6am to 5pm). In most of these places, I was the only non-Hispanic below “supervisor.” And worked under the table as a janitor and an electrician’s helper.
My wife appreciate that I have professional experience as a janitor and dishwasher. Maybe that is why at our house I do the dishes and clean the toilets.
We sleep on the floor, only have one small car for our household, don’t have a lot of electronic gadgets, don’t have television, etc. We practice an elective material simplicity.
So, these Americans that in the discussion won’t do these jobs, I call them “Fortunate.”
I’m “less fortunate.”
I’m going to have to challenge that 30 million figure, Puzzled. According to the Labor Department, there are 7.1 million unemployed:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm, and even the most expansive category of job desirers doesn’t double that figure:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm
And as this chart shows, most aren’t unemployed for very long:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t09.htm
so it’s not clear it would make sense to move or make other big changes to find a job.
I’m sure some politicians do intend the full snobbish overtones of that line, so I don’t mean to disagree with your reaction, Jimmy.
But they are probably trying to say to the unemployed, “that’s not your job the immigrant is taking, no one would be doing that job if he weren’t here”, and to some extent this line is true. Just as raising the minimum wage can cause jobs to disappear, some employers would truly not be able to afford the higher wages that would attract an American. So while there may be no job *categories* that Americans won’t do, there certainly may be some specific job slots that would never be filled by an American.
In its ironic form, the term Noblesse Oblige could apply. We, the educated, citizen class, owe to the undocumented class an opportunity to serve us, so as to observe and adopt our superior habits.
Another interesting point in the immigration debate … I was talking with a coworker whose family owns a mexican restaurant in the area. He was bemoaning the fact that they had to close on the day of the protests because none of their employees showed up to work. I asked if they were all illegal immigrants, and he immediately began to argue that since I was not from Mexico, I had no idea how tough it was there, he was giving them a better life than they could expect in their homeland. I am sure that he does not pay true market value to his cooks and wait staff, after all , they have no legal recourse, and he can soothe his own conscience by telling himself that he is paying them more than they would earn in Mexico for the same job. The problem is that he is cheating Americans out of an opportunity to earn a living wage, and he is taking advantage of the illegal immigrant in order to increase his profit margin.
To my mind, this is the crux of the problem. It is not simply a matter of Americans not willing to take certain jobs, but a matter of businesses unwilling to supply goods or services without a certain profit margin. This problem needs to be addressed at the employment level, because this is where the illegal is being most exploited.
Forgive me if I repeat any of the above.
Hoity-toity.
La-ah dee dah.
Effete.
Decadent.
Spoiled.
French. (Or any variation thereof.)
Members of the “sitting” class,
Labor challenged,
Chair sloths,
Plantation masters,
and umm…French as stated above
talking with my liberal family members, who have attended college and after years and years (and thousands of borrowed dollars) later after having received their masters degrees for their “betterment” and “education” as opposed to any real usable skills, and watching it hit them right between the eyes that they still aren’t qualified to mow lawns, clean toilets or even harvest tomatoes. And how sad it is that they have no way to pay off all those loans because its utterly unthinkable they would lower themselves to the level of asking someone if they want fries with that.
I vote for “prideful”
People who won’t do a job because they think it’s beneath them are beyond my ken. Me – enjoy work and am not too proud to do manual work. I’ve been working since I was 15, I’m 55 now and hope to emulate my grandfather who retired when he was 93.
Well put OZ,
No one is better than anyone else, just more “fortunate.” Fortunate for the abilities and resources the good Lord gave them. You have examined your lifestyle and concluded that the frills were not necessary. I salute you. To live a life on need and not want is commendable. And there is nothing wrong with good honest manual labor. I believe even B16 said something to that effect recently. And regardless of the type of labor involved, it does build character.
The last I looked, the unemployment rate was around 4.7% (http://www.bls.gov/) Now using some rough math 5% of 180 million adults 20-65 years (http://www.census.gov/) that would make 9 million unemployed. I think you are off by a factor of three.
The government, in its completely dishonest and self-serving way, does not count the long term unemployed or those who have simply dropped out of the workforce. It also counts people who hold two menial jobs twice, inflating the numbers. I know people who have been unemployed for years now.
Fragile Workers
“I’m looking for the best term of contempt to apply to persons who consider themselves too high and mighty to do certain jobs.”
How about “Saudi”?
Bush is right. Americans wont stoop to pick a grape or a head of lettuce. We are so techno savy and money hungry we wont even look at a job unless it pays enough to drive the best car or live in luxery. We are to proud to scrub a toilet or make a bed unless we are desperate enough. The right wingers want barriers to immigration and the left wants to open the flood gates. I live on the west coast and the fields would rot without immigrant farm workers.The best sign I saw during the protests was “No Immigrants…No Burritos”
I’m living here in Mexico and they sometimes refer to gringos as “remilgados” when they want to say we are too good to get dirty. I think it is sort of like “prissy” maybe.
Prissy has my vote.
I’d go with “haughty”, although “high-faluttin'” comes to mind as well.
As a youngster, I travelled around a little, and I could always find work instantly in any town, because I didn’t mind washing dishes.
Low pay, but I could usually find work in a day or two, keep the job for only as long as I needed, and move on. This was in my late teens/early twenties.
It was enough for a young, dumb kid who never really thought much past the week’s groceries, beer and gas.
It would be hard, if not impossible, for a young man to take such work in this area now, because restaurant kitchens are now mostly immigrant territory.
Even the Chinese restaurants now have latino kitchen staffs!
“Creido” is another word they use. It comes from “creer” (to believe) and it implies you think you are worth a lot more than you are, like too special to do certain work.
Oh, and as for those who really won’t consider manual labor-
How about “Cheez Whiz Eating Nintendo Monkeys”?
Arrogant?
When my husband was unemplyed, he tried to apply for all kinds of jobs, minimum wage and up. The empolyers wouldn’t hire him. In their more candid moments, they admitted that he was “too educated” and “would leave as soon as he could get something better.”
And when they hire people with less education, they don’t have turnover? I doubt it.
So some of those “lazy” people may not be given a chance to prove they are not.
“Eight dollars an hour pseudogentry”
“Entitlement pseudogentry”
“Silk-slippered couch potatoes”
“Silk slipper class” (from the old saw, “It’s hob nail boots going up but silk slippers coming down”)
“Self-appointed googlers of the day laborers” (or working class)
“Self-appointed pseudogentry”
“Lords of the ‘above that sort of thing'”
“Pseudo-jingo-gentrified overlords”
It’s false because there aren’t any jobs Americans won’t do if you pay them enough (same as people anywhere).
My husband is in the diecasting industry, he tells me that it is very multi-ethnic due to the present young generation not wanting to get their hands dirty. Our two sons gave it a try and decided to stay in college and do clean work.
My hair dresser (an immigrant from SE Asia) works in a paper mill 5 days a week to have benefits.
I had to leave school six credits shy of my masters in human-computer interaction and had trouble finding a job in the industry at that time – it was flooded with people with way more experience, from failed start-ups, etc. I worked retail until I found a job as an administrative assitant.
Whenever I meet people and tell them what I do, I get suggestions on how I could get a better job. Always. It’s pretty demoralizing.
Poodle walking blouse wearers!
Thanks to Groundskeeper from the Simpsons
The middle and upper class in Mexico are just like that sterotype of Americans only worse. They use the lower class as slaves remeniscent of the way southerners used the blacks in years past. I have seen both situations.
There are lots of jobs Americans would take if they couldn’t make as much begging on the streets. Believe me I see that every day in Tucson, Arizona. We are building an underclass of massive proportions with this immigration disaster. A million more people a year fall onto the poverty rolls in the United States, a fact the American Bishops note, but do not match up with the immigration stats.
EEK. Caught REMINISCENT. sORRY.
How ‘about “racah”?
That’s the word Jesus used when he told people not to use contemptuous terms for other people.
They use the lower class as slaves remeniscent of the way southerners used the blacks in years past.
It wasn’t just southerners, ann. It was northerners, too. All thirteen colonies were originally slave states.
How ‘about “racah”?
That’s the word Jesus used when he told people not to use contemptuous terms for other people.
Jesus… wasn’t he the guy who called his enemies “blind guides” and a “brood of vipers”?
In Yiddish, I believe the word is “edylmentsh”.
How about “White Cholera”
I would feign from using words like “Bourgeois” simply because with groups such as ANSWER backing the immigrant movements they are chomping at the bit for this to become a war of social classes and not immigration reform.
Oo, oo … how about “Pirates who don’t do anything?”
Jesuit John: “Gringos” … that’s kind of offensive to us north of the border types. But then, maybe that’s the word Jimmy’s lookin’ for???
Jared,
Have you ever been to Boston in the fall?
Jimmy,
You acknowledge, don’t you, that if forced to pay the wages Americans would demand, some current employers of illegal immigrants would simply not hire anyone? So, granted that this is not technically a job that Americans “won’t do,” what phrase would you suggest to describe it?
“Jobs that Americans won’t do at cost-effective wages?”
“Jobs that Americans won’t do at illegal-immigrant-displacing wages?”
Although those might technically describe it better, they’re pretty lame rhetorically, and anybody who doesn’t already know what they mean probably won’t be able to figure it out.
I’ll grant you that the current rhetoric is probably driven more by condescending politics than anything else, but that doesn’t mean it’s as detached from reality as some economists try to make it seem.
I don’t know I think it’s 2 ways, there isn’t a job that can’t be done by Americans, but there are a lot of jobs Americans don’t want to do.
Our country in the last 230 years has built itself up from a rough frontier country to the last remaining world power. Other countries who have been around a lot longer can’t even compare to the success of the “Great Experiment” called the United States of America.
Every past generation worked hard so that the following generations would be better off, have more and not have to work as hard as the previous generation and we are seeing the fruits of that.
To be name calling Americans just simply radiates the “I hate Americans” fever that even many Americans have caught. Are there jobs Americans don’t want to do, or won’t do? Absolutely, and that is because our country has become the greatest country in the world so much so, that we may have to build walls to keep people out.
Out of necessity an American will do any job even sometimes for substandard pay, but when the economy is booming unemployment is as low at it is, then absolutely there are jobs that Americans won’t do, and to deny that is simply being intellectually dishonest about the entire situation.
We do need take care of this immigration problem, but denying that Americans are willing at all times to do any job, is a fallacy.
oops, changed thought mid stream last sentence of my reply should read
We do need take care of this immigration problem, but claiming that Americans are willing at all times to do any job, is a fallacy.
Tim J: Nope, nor St. Louis nor St. Paul. Y’see, I never sail at all.
Mom got mad about the mashed potatoes, though.
…
I’m sorry for using up spance in the comm-box. Sometimes I can’t help myself. But, clearly, I’m in good company.
placing a vote with jesuit john:
how about
‘gumptionless gringos” or
‘prissy remilgados’–
last one may be redundant but so is ‘El camino way’
Prima donas
I do hope you remember that it’s not “jobs Americans won’t do” but “jobs SOME Americans won’t do”. I have teenagers who come around to shovel snow, rake leaves, and cut grass – for $5 each job. Granted, I pay them more, but this is what they ask for. They can’t get jobs at the carwash, the tree-cutting services, or at the local restaurants. Those are taken. These kids will spend two days picking cigarette butts off the ground for $2 an hour, scrub lime and zebra mussels off hulls for $10 a boat, and regularly bike around town to find returnable bottles in trash cans and ditches.
One of the young men is 18 and just lost his job for a landscaping company. He and all the other workers were getting paid under the table, but evidentally the boss found someone to work for less. He’s not afraid to work hard for a little money. But there’s nothing out there for him.
Many employers see immigrants (or particular ethnic groups) as just want the next step up from slave labor. One of my cousins works as a house cleaner. She cleans toilets, windows, cathedral ceilings. She has handled various types of waste and vermin, but she has her limits. She has taken people to court for not paying or writing her bad checks. She has refused to be an impromptu babysitter when a homeowner wants to leave for several hours. She won’t deliver mysterious packages or worse yet, work for people who ask her outright to be a drug mule. She calls such people “rich white trash”, but I know that’s too charged a phrase.
>The government, in its completely dishonest and >self-serving way, does not count the long term >unemployed or those who have simply dropped out of the >workforce.
That would be me – I’ve dropped out of the workforce. But I don’t want to be called unemployed because I don’t want (and don’t need) a paying job. I choose to be with my kids. I’m very fortunate to have that choice.
So whatever word or phrase you settle on would apply to me. With circumstances as they are I wouldn’t take any real job, at any pay.
And if circumstances changed? I think I would probably do just about anything if it was the only way to keep my kids alive. The choices in the US, while they might not all be fun, wouldn’t be that bad. In some third world countries, all my available choices would be bad. Breaking the law to get into the US would certainly be more appealing than prostitution.
That would be me – I’ve dropped out of the workforce. But I don’t want to be called unemployed because I don’t want (and don’t need) a paying job. I choose to be with my kids. I’m very fortunate to have that choice.
Men do not have that choice and it is men that typically do the dirty, physically difficult, and dangerous jobs. It is American men that President Bush is calling prissy.
pinchy!
elitist prigs
“It’s false because there aren’t any jobs Americans won’t do if you pay them enough (same as people anywhere”
well, that is exactly the point isn’t it…”if you pay them enough”.
I know a college prof. that put himself through grad school in the 1950’s picking strawberries for 5 cents a basket.
I don’t know anyone that would do this or even have it enter their mind if they were unemployed.
We have been conditioned that there ARE certain jobs that are below us.
And I certainly don’t see Pres. Bush spending his time picking lettuce or raspberries when he leaves office…. so who will do it?
which brings us back to the issue at hand.
this is off topic, but I have been wondering for years,
“When did the word ‘prideful’ replace ‘proud’?”
and is this just in Christianeze?
Leah,
I feel your pain. How many jobs have I not been hired for because I was “over qualified”… and then have to listen to people’s advice on how I could better my life. Yes, it is demoralizing.
hang in there.
In my opinion, “proud” covers it. We think too highly of ourselves and our dignity. We want to be cool, and that entails not being lowly. We’re like English aristocrats who don’t want to do manual labor. We think it’s beneath us or, conversely, that we’re above that. I don’t really think that all Americans have this attitude, although some certainly do. Plenty of people would do lowly work if only it paid enough to support them.
Here in Australia, the common term for this fallacy is “job snobs.” I prefer to call it, “people who refuse to be slaves.”
There are certainly Americans who would not do the work that illegal aliens are doing, and not because it would be a gross waste of talent and education — they do not, in fact, have the skills to get themselves a better job.
I have certainly heard complaints that some people, if they got jobs, would have to scrub toilets and mop floors, which is obviously beneath their digniity.
(Makes one wonder about the conditions in their homes. . . )
Clean hand Luke
Dainties
Laborphobes
Aristorats
The Greatest Degeneration
Labor-Escaper
“Sweat-a-phobe”
Paris-ites
Eleechist
ne’er-do-well
Shirking Violets
I can’t believe nobody’s used “blue-blooded” yet!