All the Right Enemies

Johnpauliiwave_1Not surprisingly, a group of Catholic dissidents has bravely united to offer opposition to the beatification of John Paul II.

According to the Catholic World News article, the group includes "11 theologians and one journalist from Europe and Latin America". Apparently, the group tried to enlist Hans Kung, but he didn’t bite.

We Are Church "has not taken a public stance" on JPII’s beatification, but earlier noted that his pontificate was "full of contradictions".

Let’s look at the list of problems the group saw with the JPII’s pontificate:

"1. the "repression and marginalization" of controversial theologians;
2. the movement away from collegiality in Church governance;
3. the unwillingness to engage in "real and serious debate about the status of women in the Roman Catholic Church;"
4. the opposition to "a reconsideration– in the light of the Gospel,
science, and history– of certain norms of sexual ethics;"
5. the adherence to the discipline of clerical celibacy–which, the
statement said, continues despite the evidence that many priests in
some geographical regions live with women, and the sexual abuse of
children in other regions;
6. the lack of control over Church financial institutions, leading to the banking scandals of the 1980s;
7. the "ecclesial isolation" of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the failure to support the theology of liberation in Latin America."

Gee, they talk about repression and marginalization like its a bad thing. This looks like a list of recommendations, to me. Not that there couldn’t be some legitimate gripes about JPII, but overall, if this is the opposition, he must have been doing something right.

GET THE STORY.

38 thoughts on “All the Right Enemies”

  2. As noted previously, all in Heaven are Saints. JP2 is definitely there. Declare it as such as stop this odd need for miracles, meetings, and a special Vatican committees. The members of this committee should be sent to parishes where there is a need for priests. Time to down-size the Vatican.

  6. I wuld give the chances of JP II being a saint about 25% in the time of B-XVI. After that I think it goes down.
    I think the chances of Paul VI being a canonized saint are near zero.
    I beleive John I , ( who died in his sleep of heart failure, despite being in perfect health..) is a saint already. I believe he wears the crown of martyrdom.

  7. “…they talk about repression and marginalization like its a bad thing.”
    Until, of course, you are repressed and marginalized! Unlike the pathetic statements in the Syllabus of Errors (ironically well named) most responsible people today advocate free speech.

  8. “…most responsible people today advocate free speech.”
    They can babble on all day if they wish. But if they babble teachings contrary to those of the Church they should be marginalized. They are free to speak. They are not free to decide the teachings of the Church.
    All points of view are not equal.

  9. “They are free to speak.”
    Thanks “LawfulGood.” By the way what are you trying to say with that pen name?

  11. I thought the same thing, Joy! Great photo.
    It strikes me as interesting that at least 3 of these *demands* (sorry for the scare-stersks but that’s what they seem like to me) are definitively answered by JPII’s Theology of the Body. Where’s Christopher West when you need him?!
    And, Patrick, LawfulGood is a D&D reference. It’s opposite would be chaotic evil, most likely. Read nothing more into LG’s nom de blog.

  12. Everyone is free to say anything.
    Black is white, up is down…
    But don’t call it repression if I don’t allow someone to teach that drek to my kids.
    If being marginalized is so odious, people are free to go where others agree with them. To insist that everyone else change to accomodate their views is spiritual hubris.

  13. “Wow. That went ad hominem quickly…”
    Dear LG, I didn’t intend it to be. Sorry if it sounded that way. I really was curious about the meaning of your nom de blog as Gene puts it.

  14. Gene rolls a natural 20, striking the foe with his +4 sword of truthfulness. The foe fails to save. Gene is victorious.

  15. Oh! Apologies accepted. I’m sorry if I misinterpreted your post. Sometimes things can seem snarky when it’s not intended.

  16. “the unwillingness to engage in ‘real and serious debate about the status of women in the Roman Catholic Church;'”
    Read: “We keep losing this debate; we want to keep debating until we win.
    “…and only until.”

  17. I don’t like the fast-track canonization, myself. But wouldn’t it be hilarious if these dissenters got together with sedevacantists and ultra-trads to protest any beatification?

  21. Whoa…he DIDN’T reconsider the church’s positions which have been held for 2,000 years?! Shame on him!
    He didn’t let there be women priests? (but he said why)
    Shame on him!
    He upheld celibacy?
    Shame on him!
    Pope JP II should totally be cannonized for pretty much every single reason they say that he shouldn’t.
    GO JP II!!!
    [As noted previously, all in Heaven are Saints. JP2 is definitely there. Declare it as such as stop this odd need for miracles, meetings, and a special Vatican committees. The members of this committee should be sent to parishes where there is a need for priests. Time to down-size the Vatican.]
    “And a merry christmas to you too, Mr. Potter!!”

  22. I beleive John I , ( who died in his sleep of heart failure, despite being in perfect health..) is a saint already. I believe he wears the crown of martyrdom.
    Pope Saint John the First is a saint, but he wasn’t in very good health– he died when Theodoric had him arrested and imprisoned in Ravenna. Prison life in the 6th Century wasn’t very conducive to long life.

  23. Dennis,
    I think Catholic Defender meant John Paul I. If so, he subscribes to the theory that JPI was assassinated, though I think he would disagree with liberal kooks who believe that JPI was done in because he was supposedly going to abrogate Humanae Vitae regarding the motive for the dubiously alleged crime.

  24. I think those who really believe John Paul I
    just died in his sleep need to read a beyond a few press clippings.
    I suggest the most respected work on his death, written by David Yallop, a thorough reseacher and journalist. Or one could read the reviews of others who have read the book.
    Why is it that murder of a pope is something so difficult for people to fathom. That he was
    murdered was the widely held view of most people in Rome at the time.
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553050737/qid=1134002928/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-6273499-6387222?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

  26. I doubt it.
    The health history of the Pope was excellent. He had low blood pressure, which is not a risk factor for having a heart attack !
    The fact is, he had signaled plenty of folks in powerful jobs, both clergy and non clergy he was going to be replacing them. Less than 72 hours later he is dead.
    He was in all probablity poisoned, but the evidence was destroyed, in violation of established protocol, before any forensic investigation could be completed.
    Now what do you think ?

  29. Hey, why can’t we just dig a big old pit and throw Realist and CatholicDefender in it together and let them argue with one another to their hearts’ content (assuming a matter-antimatter reaction isn’t formed)?

  30. Or we could have the JPI conspiracy theorists read the excellent CRISIS investigation that debunked the many myths around his death.

  31. While it is not widely discussed, there is also the story that initially John Paul I did not pay much attention to the message of Fatima. shortly after becoming Pope, he visited Sister Lucia and became convinced of the importance of the Fatima consecration. He told her it would be done soon.
    The latest I hear is the next pope will consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart, peace wil be granted to the world and Russia will convert, ( to the Catholic Faith ). One can only hope this is the case.
    Many stories revolve around other actions JP I
    said he would undertake. There are critics on the liberal and conservative side with regards to this Pope.
    There would be no question in this matter if he had died from pnemonia or a stroke or blot clot and a autopsy was done.
    But he died in his room., in the middle of the night, having retired to bed at about 11 p.m. without any health complaints, and is dead when found at 4:30 a.m.
    He is embalmed in less than 5 hours, despite official protests and thus it is impossible to conduct a autopsy and provide conclusive evidence of his cause of death.
    Black ops and conspiracies are a ongoing part of history. Look at the recently declassifeid Gulf of Tonkin transcripts. The escalation of this
    conflict was based on the widely reported second attack on American forces which many called a act of war. There was no second attack.
    The Gulf of Tonken was a isolated incident which was not a premeditated act of war on the part of the North Vietnamese. Without that second ‘invented’ attack, nothing would have happened. In other words we invented a excuse to go into Vietnam, saying we had been attacked. This news
    has to be devastating to those who lost loved ones in the conflict.

  32. And what about Jim Fixx? You all remember – the long-distance runner who was in perfect health from running marathons & all that physicial training, author of The Complete Book of Running. He dropped dead, at 52, of a . . . heart attack! How could the world’s (at the time) most well-known & accomplished advocate of running for health have died after 15 years of a running lifestyle?
    Hmmm . . . there’s a conspiracy here somewhere! Actually, no. Fixx had 95% blockage to 3 main coronary arteries. His cholesterol level just months prior to his death was in the mid 200’s. He died, ultimately, ‘cos his diet was crappy. Also, Fixx’s father also died in his late 40’s of . . . a heart attack. Genetics has a lot to say about one’s susceptibility to a large number of conditions; coronary artery disease being one of the prime examples.
    Catholic Defender, JPI may have been even healthier than Jim Fixx was at the time of his death. But, if he had a crappy diet & a familial history of heart disease, it was pretty much going to get him at some point. So, perhaps the real *murderer* here is rich Italian food.

  33. “And what about Jim Fixx?”
    Or Sergei Grinkov, for that matter: an athlete in excellent condition, dead of a heart attack at the age of 28.
    Must’ve been a conspiracy….

  34. The problem is we are never (99.99%) going to know how John Paul I died. The folks who had access to his body destroyed the evidence. He was embalmed in a few short hours after his death, which is competely against protocol. The folks who did this knew people were trying to stop it, and have a autopsy done, but they ordered it done and done at once. Guess who won. Even the embalmer thought it was wrong to do it, but complied. Does that sound a little odd ?
    and the issue?
    The autopsy would have provided the cause of death. But that never happended. Embalming ruined the evidence.
    Sort of like wiping a glass with fingerprints on it.
    We are left with a great deal of circumstancial evidence.
    John Paul I had made clear he was replacing several powerful persons who ran important posts in the church.
    He had also made known his vow to consecrate Russia.
    Also, did you know his room was completely cleaned BEFORE the police were permitted entry.
    Gee, it that like someone covering up a crime scene or what ?
    If the facts do not emerge fairly soon, we will never know because those involved are going to take this with them to the grave.
    In my opinion, I doubt the story will ever be fully known because folks who know have a vested interest in not telling. It is called staying alive.

  35. (SIGH)
    I will never, never, never – if I live to be a million – understand the workings of a conspitorial mind. Ultimately, it seeks to rely on the self rather than God.
    Uncle Andrew was right, it is a “high & lonely” profession.

  38. What poor individuals you are that say JP I was murdered you really should lie down in a darkened room as you are not at all well.
    JP II WE LUV YOU !
    Want to know how we know JP II s a saint ?
    Its easy , pick one of his encyclicals and read it.

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