A reader writes:
Did the Vatican come out against boxing? I was confronted about this and was unable to locate anything on their web site. Could you explain any of your thoughts on the subject of sporting events like boxing or MMA (mixed martial arts)?
I am unaware of any magisterial statements that condemn boxing. This is a subject that has been left to moral theologians, certainly in recent years.
There was, however, an article published in the magazine La Civilta Cattolica, which is published by the Jesuits. Despite the fact that the magazine’s contents basically get an imprimatur from the Vatican’s Secretariat of State, they are NOT magisterial statements and are NOT binding on the consciences of the faithful.
It may have been reporting about this article that you ran into.
It is important to note that this article uses what sounds like hyperbolic language. For example, it reportedly refers to professional boxing as "a form of legalized attempted murder," which is clearly hyperbolic. One might conclude that professional boxing is horrendously brutal and immoral and that it ought to be banned, but it is not literally true that boxing legalizes attempted murder. Pro boxers are generally not attempting to murder each other and, if they are, what they’re doing in the ring is NOT legal. Countries have laws against against attempted murder, even in the ring.
It’s also important to note that the article CLEARLY DISTINGUISHES between professional boxing and amateur boxing. According to the Catholic News Service:
The magazine distinguished between professional boxing and boxing done as a controlled sport in a gymnasium with protective equipment, which it said can be morally acceptable and even useful.
Personally, I am not a boxing fan. I recognize that it can be done in a moral way, particularly in amateur settings (like the other martial arts). I have qualms about the way it is done in the boxing industry, but I’m not enough of an expert to form an opinion about professional boxing. I’d have to know a lot more before I’d be able to comment responsibly on it.
I think the same may be true of the author(s) of the piece in La Civilta Cattolica. Any time hyperbolic language starts getting used in a cultural critique, it makes me wonder if the author is doing balanced, sober reflection on a cultural phenomenon or if he has had a visceral reaction and his writing is moved by passion in a way that causes him to lose sight of important facts.
Any time hyperbolic language starts getting used in a cultural critique, it makes me wonder if the author is doing balanced, sober reflection on a cultural phenomenon or if he has had a visceral reaction and his writing is moved by passion in a way that causes him to lose sight of important facts.
Sounds like blogging to me 🙂
So one is not allowed to show emotion when arguing their case? Forgive me, but the way I see it, the use of “hyperbolic” language does not necessarily disqualify that person’s point of view, in my opinion. I always try to reserve judgement on a person’s views until I am able to gather more information about what he said, simply because the media takes people’s words out of context.
So one is not allowed to show emotion when arguing their case?
I don’t think that’s what Jimmy said. He said hyperbolic language “makes me wonder if the author is doing balanced, sober reflection on a cultural phenomenon or if he has had a visceral reaction and his writing is moved by passion in a way that causes him to lose sight of important facts.” He didn’t say it “disqualif[ies] that person’s point of view.”
New forms of boxing are evolving, also.
Traditional boxing is being supplanted by Tough Guy-type bare knuckle fights, kickboxing and other kinds of mindless brawling.
Thank you, cable television.
I don’t advocate banning boxing, though. A ban would only drive the whole business underground and would just be one more thing for the cops to worry about.
“Sounds like blogging to me”
Quite right. And with that in mind I have followed Mark Shea’s lead and “trademarked” a term for it when I find it creeping into blogs. “Hyperbolic Chamber Zombie”.
Any word on the morality of Ultimate Ear Boxing?
“I don’t think that’s what Jimmy said. He said hyperbolic language “makes me wonder if the author is doing balanced, sober reflection on a cultural phenomenon or if he has had a visceral reaction and his writing is moved by passion in a way that causes him to lose sight of important facts.” He didn’t say it “disqualif[ies] that person’s point of view.”
I see. I still don’t think that necessarily means that person has an unbalanced point of view. This passion may come from hours of reflection and contemplation. He may be expressing himself out of anger that his views are not being heard properly, and he is simply venting.
I was thinking that perhaps boxing was being confused, either in the original or in translation, with the brutal, hard-core streetfight-style cagematch events on pay-per-view or such things.
Hey, what about the ethics of Professional Wrestling?
I still don’t think that necessarily means that person has an unbalanced point of view.
Neither did Jimmy say that hyperbole “necessarily means that person has an unbalanced point of view.”
Look, the point is that the writer’s choice of words does not necessarily mean that he is too involved in his story. That was my point.
And once again, Jimmy didn’t say it did. Perhaps you have not sufficiently attended to the importance of the distinction between saying that A “makes me wonder if” B might be the case and saying that “A means that B is “necessarily” the case.
“Hey, what about the ethics of Professional Wrestling?”
You mean, its real? lol!
Actually, the first time I heard that the Vatican “condemned” boxing was through a joke on Late Night with Conan O’Brien, which didn’t compel me to take it seriously. The way I see it, the Vatican would have qualms with the way pro-boxing is marketed and run, not with boxing per se.
Personally I loathe boxing as a sport, it matters not whether it is amateur or proffessional. What possible good can come our of bashing someone’s brains around their skull?
God Bless.
Actually, Tim, I think bare knuckle fights lead to few injuries and fatalities–boxers don’t hit as hard if they don’t have padding, and you’re less willing to absorb blows.
It’s kinda like how rugby has many fewer injuries than football. They don’t wear pads and helmets in rugby, which means they don’t hit as hard.
“And once again, Jimmy didn’t say it did. Perhaps you have not sufficiently attended to the importance of the distinction between saying that A “makes me wonder if” B might be the case and saying that “A means that B is “necessarily” the case”.
Look, perhaps I haven’t made my self clear. So here I go once more…
I don’t think that the author’s views necessarily indicate that he is emotionally attached. I am merely suggesting that there may be another explanation for his choice of words. Okay? Are we all copacetic now? Okay, let’s drop it.
Personally I loathe boxing as a sport, it matters not whether it is amateur or proffessional. What possible good can come our of bashing someone’s brains around their skull?
I loathe boxing too, but I do see some good coming from the sparring involved in self-defense education.
Actually, Tim, I think bare knuckle fights lead to few injuries and fatalities–boxers don’t hit as hard if they don’t have padding, and you’re less willing to absorb blows.
I’ve also heard that bare knuckle fighting often involves fewer head injuries because the person throwing the punch doesn’t want to injure his hand.
I don’t think that the author’s views necessarily indicate that he is emotionally attached.
Jimmy never said that hyperbole “necessarily” indicates anything. As long as you acknowledge that, fine.
pha,
If people want to learn ‘self defence’, don’t you think it would be better to learn from a qualified instructor how to ‘defend’ the body from attack rather than learning how to mash someone with a hefty right hook,thus antagonizing the instigator?
How does boxing give ‘self defence education’ when it is an aggravated ‘sport’ and the aim is to knock your opponent out for the count?
God Bless.
“…I do see some good coming from the sparring involved in self-defense education.”
Boxing may be some use as self defense, but it’s no match for a good blaster at your side.
Discussing the morality of Boxing is complicated enough. Adding UFC type stuff (bareknuckles) into the fray makes for a bigger mess. As a martial artist, I started to write a post a few minutes ago. Then I copied what I was writing to Word so I could see everything I was writing better (and for the convenient use of the spell checker:)
After I got close to the second page in Word, I realized that I wasn’t anywhere near done typing and would probably end up running into a Rule 3 violation…so I stopped.
I’ll just say this, if one is involved in any martial art (boxing and savate are martial arts too) carry your morality with you. Some things are out of bounds, and I don’t think some are.
Just my two cents.
Tim J. We here in the early 21st century call that form “ClickPow.” But we don’t quite have blasters yet (I’d work on one, but my wife would say ‘No!’)
If people want to learn ‘self defence’, don’t you think it would be better to learn from a qualified instructor how to ‘defend’ the body from attack
Yes, it would.
How does boxing give ‘self defence education’
Hello? I didn’t say that it does. I advocated “the sparring involved in self-defense education.” I did not advocate boxing, which (as I said) I loathe.
I’ll just say this, if one is involved in any martial art (boxing and savate are martial arts too) carry your morality with you.
I agree.
Apologies to pha for my mistake, but please don’t use the ‘Hello= DOH” terminology, I’m not a teenager.
God Bless.
I would argue boxing is great for self defense. Boxing isn’t a one dimensional thing where you go into this ring and pound the living daylights out of your opponent. Well it is…but more happens ‘under the hood’ than simply fisticuffs. I’d let my son take boxing if he wanted to (though I’d push for Aikido or Karate first.)
You wanna talk about a sport where you simply beat up your opponent for no reason, talk about hockey. 🙂
I’m not a teenager.
Nor am I. Deal with it.
I would argue boxing is great for self defense. Boxing isn’t a one dimensional thing where you go into this ring and pound the living daylights out of your opponent. Well it is…but more happens ‘under the hood’ than simply fisticuffs. I’d let my son take boxing if he wanted to (though I’d push for Aikido or Karate first.)
You wanna talk about a sport where you simply beat up your opponent for no reason, talk about hockey. (though I hear that little puck thing the smack around has something to do with the game as well. 🙂
I’d push for Aikido or Karate first
I took Karate, but Aikido would be my preference.
I’d like to appologize to any boxers out there, I totally respect boxing. I’m not suggesting Karate or Aikido as being superior as much as I just don’t want my son to have head injuries. After all, he’s going to be a Nobel Prize winner when he grows up (first we have to potty train him.)
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