A reader writes regarding an answer I gave on yesterday’s radio show:
I was a bit concerned with your response to the woman asking about her
friend who "has the gift of tongues" after having asked for it. From
what my priest has said (primarily using the works of St. Thomas
Aquinas, I believe), the gift of tongues is a charismatic Grace and
that NO charismatic Grace should be asked for as they are unnecessary
to salvation and they come with such a large responsibility.
While I would love to have a citation to St. Thomas Aquinas so that I could look up what passage your priest may have been thinking of, all I can say is that this is not the attitude of St. Paul. In 1 Corinthians 14:1, he writes:
Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.
Since the gifts in question are the charismatic ones (prophecy, tongues, interpretation of tongues, etc.), Paul certainly is not discouraging people from wanting or even asking for these gifts. At one point he even instructs them to ask for such a gift:
Therefore, he who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret (1 Cor. 14:13).
While God may not give these gifts today as often as he did in the first century, meaning that there is less of a reason to ask for them to day, I don’t see how one could support the position that one should never ask for charismatic gifts.
One can be too concerned about charismatic gifts and that can lead one into problems (like manufacturing the appearance of them when God has not really given them), but the idea that one should never ask for them is not supportable from Scripture.
The reader continues:
Furthermore, many charismatic Graces can be immitated by devils, so
asking for such a Grace can open one up to devils.
This does not follow. If you ask God to give you a gift, that does not mean that you are creating an avenue for the devil to do something in your life. Asking God for a grace is never itself an avenue for the devil to do something. You must be doing something else (in addition to asking God) to open yourself up to evil.
It’s hard to see what that might be in this case. People who are interested in praying in tongues are generally pretty closed in spirit to the devil. Their wills are set in opposition to his. That makes it unlikely that he would be able to gain influence. The disposition of the will is crucial for that.
It would be more likely that people who are overly concerned about speaking in tongues would run ahead of God’s grace and manufacture the experience themselves–so that it is of natural origin–but if their wills are set on following God and not the devil then the he will not have an opening through which to affect them.
My priest actually
used the gift of tongues as an example, saying that one who truly has
that particular Grace understands what he is saying, like St. Catherine
of Sienna. God does not give such a Grace only to have the recipient be
in the dark.
If your priest said that then he again appears to be in disagreement with St. Paul, who is very clear than uninterpreted tongues are not understood by the speaker–including St. Paul himself! He writes:
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one
understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. . . . For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. . . . I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all; nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind,
in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue (1 Cor. 14:2, 14, 18-19).
The reader continues:
God gives that Grace to His saints so that they may teach
others and spread understanding, not confusion.
True, which is why Paul indicates that tongues should only be used in church if they are interpreted, making them equivalent to prophecy (1 Cor. 14:27-28, 5).
Furthermore, devils can
put words into one’s mouth, so this "gift" can easily be the work of a
devil, NOT the Holy Spirit.
I have no evidence of this whatsoever. Unless one has deliberately opened oneself up to someone other than God, this will not happen. As long as one’s will is oriented to God, the devil has no opening.
I’ve heard priests give examples of learned
scholars and priests going to Charismatic Masses where people were
"speaking in tongues" and these men who were fluent in other languages
reported that the words they heard uttered from some people with this
"gift" were in fact words that were, to be polite, not praising Our
Lord.
Without specifics, I can’t really comment on this. I would note, however, that there are also anecdotal reports of people who know other languages going to service where speaking in tongues was occurring and hearing people praise God in other languages.
In most cases, they reported that people were merely babbling. In
one case, a man knowingly recited part of the Ave Maria (in Latin,
obviously) and the one with the "gift" to translate these words quoted
nothing even close to the Hail Mary.
This is not evidence of the devil. It is evidence instead of people running ahead of God’s grace and manufacturing tongues or the interpretation of tongues, which is a phenomena that does happen.
It also seems to me that not telling this misled, if not
gullible, woman such information is doing her and all other listeners a
great disservice. Many listeners could have walked away from the
program today under the impression that asking for this delicate
charismatic Grace is a good thing to do. I would think that it would be
incredibly important to stress just the opposite.
A long time ago I learned two lessons: (1) Answer questions as they are put to you and (2) in a pastorally sensitive situation, don’t supply information that the inquirer hasn’t asked for unless there is a compelling reason and you can back up if you are challenged on it.
The lady who called in did not ask me my opinion of how often tongues are genuine, so I didn’t offer an opinion on this. I have my own view, but I cannot back it up from Church teaching or other sources. I thus was not asked about it and had no compelling reason to inject it into the discussion. It is a matter on which Catholics can hold different opinions.
Neither did the woman ask me about whether one should seek the gift of tongues. The Church does not teach that people should not seek this gift. I also disagree with the claim that one should never seek it. If someone asked me, I would explain the cautions that St. Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 14 regarding over-preoccupation with this gift, but saying that it should never be sought is simply not supportable. Consequently, I did not inject this into the discussion either.
I would think it
would be important to let people know that if they think they have this
Grace, they need to speak with their confessor so that he may determine
the nature of the "gift." For the welfare and safety of people’s souls,
they should not be made to think so lightly of such a huge burden.
Here is something that I agree with. The gift of tongues should not be treated lightly–that’s one of the things St. Paul is cautioning his readers against–and if one thinks that one is experiencing it, it is reasonable to seek the opinion of one’s confessor or others of sound judgment to try and determine if the experience is genuine.
I regret that I had to disagree with so much of what you wrote, but I’m glad that I could end on a note of agreement.
The spiritual gifts are good things, and it’s good to want them, but like everything else, we have to pray “thy will be done” and accept God’s decision. (Or keep praying hard for what we want, “storming heaven”.)
Here’s something on the spiritual gift of hearing angel song, from Walter Hilton back in medieval times:
“Our Lord knows there that soul is that, for abundance of burning love, is worthy to hear angel’s song. Who so then will hear angel’s song, and not be deceived by feigning of himself, nor by imagination, nor by the illusion of the enemy, it behooves him for to have perfect charity; and that is when all vain love and dread, vain joy and sorrow, is cast out of the heart, so that it love nothing but God, nor dread nothing but God, nor joys, nor sorrows nothing but in God, or for God. Who so might by the grace of God go this way, he should not err.
“Nevertheless, some men are deceived by their own imagination, or by the illusion of the enemy, in this manner. Some man, when he hath long travailed bodily and spiritually in destroying of sins and getting of virtues, and peradventure hath gotten by grace a somedeal rest and a clarity in conscience, anon he leaves prayers, readings of holy scriptures, and meditations of the passion of Christ, and the mind of his wretchedness; and, before he be called of God, he gathers his own visits by violence to seek and to behold heavenly things, before his eye be made spiritual by grace, and overtravails by imaginations his wits, and by indiscreet travailing turns the brains in his head, and breaks apart the mights and the wits of the soul and of the body. And then, for feebleness of the brain, he thinks that he hears wonderful sounds and songs; and that is nothing else but a fantasy, caused of troubling of the brain; as a man that is in a frenzy thinks that he hears and sees that none other man does; and all is but vanity and fantasies of the head, or else it is by working of the wicked enemy that feigns such sounds in his hearing.
“For if a man have any presumption in his fantasies and in his workings, and thereby falls in to indiscreet imagination, as it were in a frenzy, and is not ordered nor ruled of grace, nor comforted by spiritual strength, the devil enters in, and by his false illuminations, and by his false sounds, and by his false sweetnesses, he deceives a man’s soul.
“And of this false ground springs errors, and heresies, false prophecies, presumptions, and false reasonings, blasphemings, and slanderings, and many other mischiefs. And, therefore, if thou see any man spiritually occupied fall in any of these sins and these deceits, or in frenzies, know thou well that he never heard nor felt angel’s song nor heavenly sound. For, truly, he that heareth verily angel’s song, he is made so wise that he shall never err by fantasy, nor by indiscretion, nor by no trick of working of the devil.”
The closest I can recall to Aquinas’s saying anything like this is in his discussion of prayer (ST 2-2.83.16), where he says that God answers the prayers of sinners provided that certain conditions are met (that the prayer be for what is necessary to salvation, that it be prayed piously, that it be prayed perseveringly). But that’s considering the case of people outside the Church, and in discussing the gratuitous graces (of which gifts like tongues are an example), he appears to assume that they are given in response to prayer — at least, this seems assumed in his discussion of the gift of miracles (ST 2-2.178.1&2), where he points out that God may give such a gift in response to prayer either out of mercy to the one praying or for the good of others and God’s glory (the chief purpose of the gift of miracles). And this isn’t really surprising; on Aquinas’s view all gratuitous graces are profitable for salvation — what distinguishes them from sanctifying grace is that they are given so that members of the Church might help others be disposed to salvation. (Aquinas follows Paul in holding that tongues are primarily a gift of praise to God for the sake of those who are not Christian, which is why it is inferior to the gift of prophecy, which directs non-believers to God not merely by words but by enlightenment as well.)
Mr. Akin,
In your opinion is it contrary to Catholic faith to hold a “cessationist” position on tongues?
That’s a *very* interesting question. I’d like to answer it in the main blog section so more people can see it. I’ll do that no later than Monday.
Jimmy, this is an issue I have been trying to educate others about. There is a clear belief in this country (USA) that the Charismatic renewal is demonic or has demonic elements.
I have discussed this with members of the Charismatic Renewal from other countries and this attitude seems to be an American thing. The response they give me is similar to your own: You cannot anticipate receiving the demonic if you are asking God for His Spirit.
I am happy you blogged this exchange as I am sending it to english speaking members of the other charismatic communities outside the USA who are amazed at how many Americans are afraid of that the Charismatic renewal is demonic.
Maybe it is a subject for one of your radio shows in the future?
I am not one of those who has ever entertained that toungues or other elements of the charismatic movement might be demonic, however I do see a real danger of people deceiving themselves, or wanting some special spiritual gift so much that they come to believe they have been given it.
I read a book not long ago about charismatic gifts, and the way they deal with, for instance, the “word of knowledge” was troubling. The writer, a charismatic priest, tells how he believes the gift is manifested, with a word or phrase popping into the head of the speaker. He says that it doesn’t matter if the word make sense to the speaker, they should go ahead and speak this supernatural word thay have been given.
Then he says that it doesn’t matter if the word makes sense to the hearer, either. If the word “frost” pops into your head, you should speak it to the hearer. If the hearer says, “Nope, sorry… doesn’t mean anything to me.”, you are never to doubt that it was a supernatural word of knowledge, regardless.
You are NEVER to doubt your gift. And how do you know you have the gift? Because you asked for it! If you ask for such gifts, God will give them, period.
Another priest asserted that if you want to speak in toungues, you have to give the Holy Spirit a little help by making your own sounds, just to get the ball rolling, so to speak.
Again, with healing, if you think you have the gift and you lay hands on someone, it doesn’t matter whether anything seems to happen or not. In such a case the one being healed must have been healed of some “spiritual” ailment, or was healed of something they didn’t know they had yet, or some such…
This all sounds very close to wishful thinking, IMHO.
One also runs into pride in these things. Some charismatics are SURE what they say is a gift from God, so you’d better not contradict them, and some I have known extend their ‘gift’ to ‘reading’ other’s souls and motives, and judge accordingly. They see themselves as inherently superior because God chose to give THEM the gifts.
Having been active as a charismatic both before and after my conversion to Catholicism, I have some thoughts that might be helpful.
First, even though I have once spoken in tongues where there was an interpretation,(prayer group setting) and sometimes pray in tongues (always privately and never an interpretation, and always under my conscious control), I would be the first to recognize the dangers of them. The dangers are two-fold. First, being visible they are much easier to counterfiet by Satan (consider “Holy Laughter” which many think are false) and it gives rise to division within the Church.
I personally think that in the proper place and guidance by mature leaders, that speaking in tongues can be good, but they tend to feed the emotional and not the rational parts of a person. This by itself makes them more dangerous.
Does anyone know the history of the practice of tongues? I mean, when did it cease to be a prevalent activity within the Church?
Was it ever completely or nearly completely gone?
Were there times/areas in the Catholic (or Orthodox?) Churches when the practice was renewed before the current Charismatic Renewal?
How did the practice become renewed in the current renewal?
In the Charismatic renewal, it seems strange to me that the basic model being copied is the Pentecostalist Evangelical model of what toungues looks/sounds like. “Hannammanab reshananananana…” is typically the sounds I hear at Charismatic Catholic services, and it sounds more or less like the sounds I’ve heard at Pentecostal services. Not to sound rude, but why would the Catholic Church need to allow the copying of a heretical sect’s services?
That bothered me too, Ben
The “word of knowledge”as it is practiced by many charismatic Catholics is almost a carbon copy of what Pat Robertson does on the 700 club.
Other than that, I see no antecedent for it.
I have found it interesting that I have met a number of people who can speak in tongues, but I have yet to meet one person who has the gift of interpreting tongues.
As a convert from fundamentalism/evangelicalism (FE), the topic of tongues has always intrigued me. I think the belief that speaking in tongues is demonic stems from confusing the grace with the oft-reported demonic possession “symptom”–maybe “manifestation” is a better word?–of speaking in a language unknown to the possessed. I believe my college logic textbook called this “affirming the consequent”:
If Joe is possessed, he will speak in tongues–Joe is speaking in tongues, therefore Joe is possessed.
Now I’m sure most who connect speaking in tongues with the demonic wouldn’t go so far as to say possession is always involved–I’m not trying to generalize here–but the connection seems like a probable source for misunderstanding.
Also, though I have no experience with charasmatic graces within the Catholic Church, I believe many religious exctasies, whether expressed vocally or physically, are wrongly labeled charasmatic graces, or “gifts” as they’re known in FE circles. Without passing judgement on religious exctasies, there are many things within a corporate worship environment that can get people worked up to the point that they may behave “differently,” especially if the exhibition of said exctasies is seen as evidence of faith or divine favor.
About 10 years ago I had a conversation I won’t forget with a woman who referred to her particular Baptist denomination as “full gospel.” I was (understandably) confused, so she explained that baptism of the Holy Spirit was what “saves” you and that you’ll know you’ve recieved this baptism by speaking in tongues. I remember thinking to myself that if my family attended a “full gospel” church (I was 17 and still attending my parents’ choice of church), the first thing I would do is stand up during the service and start speaking jibberish so that any question of my salvation would be cleared up right off the bat.
– jp
Does anyone know the history of the practice of tongues? I mean, when did it cease to be a prevalent activity within the Church? Was it ever completely or nearly completely gone? Were there times/areas in the Catholic (or Orthodox?) Churches when the practice was renewed before the current Charismatic Renewal?
Many Orthodox are “cessationist” and very opposed to the modern phenomena, interpreting it as prelest. Some very popular Orthodox books deal with the matter from this perspective.
hi!
i hope someone would still reply to this post.. i’ve been into the charismatic renewal for almost 3 years now and have excercised the gift of tongues.. but lately i’ve been having doubts whether this is really from God or something i just made up.. i’m really confused right now and scared, very scared.. i decided to not use it first because i do not want to offend God and the Holy Spirit.. i’m planning to see a knowledgable priest as soon as possible.. but what if i find out that it was me all the while, will God forgive me? i never intended to fake it or anything, i just wanted to recieve the gift.. what should i do? will God forgive me? please answer my questions.. please..
in despair,
Redg
redg –
I am not a spiritual director, which it sounds like you are seeking, but I will offer my opinion, such as it is. If you don’t find it helpful, please ignore it.
” lately i’ve been having doubts whether this is really from God or something i just made up.. i’m really confused right now and scared, very scared..”
First, even if it turns out that what you have been experiencing is not really the biblical gift of toungues, you have done nothing wrong and are not in sin. Being confused is not a sin.
It sounds to me like you are afraid of offending God, and that is a totally healthy fear! Just don’t fear for your soul over this.
You may hear from those who say (as I read in a book, once) that you must never, never, never doubt your “gift”, be it toungues, or healing, or whatever.
But it seems to me that what they are really saying is that if you ever DO have doubts, you must never acknowledge them, to yourself or anyone else. This does not sound healthy.
I don’t think anybody in the New Testament who spoke in toungues had any doubt as to what was happening to them. According to the biblical pattern, it seems to be a gift that erupts spontaneously – ON IT’S OWN – without any coaching or coaxing or “practice”. It is a movement of the Holy Spirit, and not a man-made phenomenon. Therefore, it may be for good reason that you have serious doubts.
If you do decide that what you have been doing isn’t really “speaking in toungues”, then that is a good thing! Why? Because knowing the truth is always better than continuing in a falsehood.
If you do decide that what you are experiencing is genuine, then GOOD FOR YOU! You will be better off for having worked through your doubts.
In either case, I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself. In fact, it might be wise to just not think about toungues very much for a while, and focus instead on other aspects of your devotional life and prayer. Let the field lie fallow for a bit, and see how God directs you.
The spiritual gifts, it seems to me, should be attended by increased inner peace. If you are troubled or disturbed in your heart about this, I recommend backing away from it for a time and expressing your heart to the Lord on other ways.
God bless you in your search for spiritual direction. The Lord will reward your desire for truth, and this desire, in fact, comes from Him!
You will be in my prayers.