I don’t normally blog from work (all my blogging is done from home during the evening), but a work-related question just came up.
We just had a meeting to see about how we can push forward making Catholic Answers Live available in .mp3 format and a couple of questions came up that I thought pitching to y’all on the blog might be good given folks’ experience of different players and how they behave.
So here goes:
1) We have a decision to make on the calendar pages at Catholic.Com having three or four links per show. If we have four the links would be:
- (a) Listen RealAudio,
- (b) Download RealAudio,
- (c) Listen MP3,
- (d) Download MP3.
We’re wondering whether link (c) is really needed. Whaddya y’all think?
2) Is anyone aware of compression rates that could cause problems for us if we use them? Alternately, are any compression rates especially desirable?
Thanks, folks!
32 or 64 kbps mono would be a good choice for MP3s (as long as it’s mostly talk). 32 kbps would sound about as good as a typical phone call; 64 kbps would sound about like AM radio.
Have you considered any alternatives to RealAudio? I will never install Real on any of my computers, nor recommend it for any other users; it installs spyware on people’s PCs and is a pain to install or remove. QuickTime, or even (but not as desirable) Windows Media might be a better alternative. QuickTime is the most compatible of all three, and (in my opinion) the cheapest to set up and maintain, while giving the best quality.
1) I don’t think so. If you want to just Listen, you can open the Download link in your mp3 player.
2) Variable bitrate might cause slight problems, but I doubt you’d use it anyway. To the second part, I’d say just use mono and the lowest rate you can have without sounding bad. You might wanna post some tests here on the blog, for your faithful readership to test and get back to you quickly.
If I listen on my computer, I use Windows Media Player. Like Jeff, I stay away from real if I can.
First, I am ELATED to hear this news. My wife and I would love to listen to Catholic Answers Live on long car trips, but the current audio archives are too low quality to listen to in the car (because the audio has to compete with the engine and road noise).
In answer to your questions:
(1) I don’t think that option (c) is necessary.
(2) I would recommend that you use mono rather than stereo, don’t use variable bit rate (VBR), and do use a constant bit rate that is a bit higher than seems necessary for good sound quality. The reason for this last recommendation is that a higher sound quality is required for listening in the car than for listening at home, since the audio has to compete with the white noise coming from the engine and tires. I would recommend that you look at the archived MP3 audio files on Peter Kreeft’s web site (www.peterkreeft.com). Most of those files sound fine either at home or in the car, so whatever bit rate he uses would probably be sufficient. Off the top of my head, I would recommend at least 40 kbps, though 64 kbps would probably be preferable.
Very exciting CA’s working on this! YEA!
1) I use iTunes to manage my iPod’s library & have set it to play all MP3 files. When it comes to stuff like CAL shows, in the vast majority of cases, I’d rather download the MP3 file so I can listen whenever I want. And since iTunes isn’t the only free MP3 orgainzer out there, pretty much everybody could just download & delete shows as they wished. So, I’d say #3 is unnecessary.
And I’ll 2nd the QuickTime over RealAudio preference! Just say no to spyware.
2) Jeff makes a good point. For me, listening to a phone call-quality CA show would quickly grow tiresome. I’d prefer the 64kbps. I can’t speak to potential compression problems, though.
Jimmy,
I’m glad to see that CA is looking into this. I’ve emailed you before on such an issue.
It appears to me that the trend is going toward MP3 formats.
Why?
Simple, iPods and Podcasting. It’s on the rise and personally I would love to receive and download your CA shows onto my iPod (new fathers day present….thanks kids) to listen to on my way home.
I’m still educating myself on this technology, however there is plenty of help out there. Your MP3 format would be made available via XML or RSS feeds.
Forget the RealAudio format. You can only listen to it using their application and you definitely can’t listen to it via one’s iPod.
One can now purchase a cigarette lighter charger/adapter which allows one to listen to one’s iPod through your car stereo! If satellite radio is not an option for you, listen from downloads of the CA show through the car stereo.
Fr. Roderick from http://www.catholicinsider.com has some tips at his website. I’ve downloaded a number of his shows to my iPod-mini to listen to on my way home tonight using iPodder (www.ipodder.sourceforge.net ).
Apple and iTunes have teamed up to support the podcasting industry
In my opinion, c) & d).
Also check out Catholic Cast podcasting website at http://www.discipleradio.com and Podcasting News at http://www.podcastingnews.com.
Here’s a great link to an article on the future of podcasting…MP3 format.
(http://www.podcastingnews.com/archives/2005/06/steve_jobs_on_p_1.html )
God Bless
Tim Robles +<>< Chino Hills,CA
MP3 download — nix RealAudio — MP3 will play on many different free programs. Avoid Real for sure.
Mono is fine, but definitely 64kbps
I use iTunes and iPod for my listening pleasure.
‘thann
This would be fantastic. Last year I spent numerous hours converting the hundreds and hundreds of episodes from .ra to .mp3 (yes, it can be done, I purchased some relatively cheap software online whose name I can’t recall now that did the trick but required muchas processing power and lots of time). Finally, when I was done, I burned the mp3’s onto CD’s (it took 16 CD’s if I recall for all the episodes up to July 2004). Our car CD player supported MP3 formatted CD’s so we had a great time listening to old CA episodes on the road.
I used either 64 or 96 bit VBR compression, converting using Razor Lame (freeware) to convert the .wav files created by the RP conversion software to .mp3’s. They came out pretty well, the voice dynamics on the show (i.e. radio host vs. caller) can be difficult on the ears (when you have it turned up in your car to hear the conversation the host can boom in much louder than the caller sometimes) but that was about all the quality problems I had.
And, just to chime in with the other bloggers, I as well am very apprehensive of Real Player. I would never voluntarily install it on any machine other than for the sole purpose of listening to files that are only available in its format. It’s a memory hog and just a plain nuisance (I despise those system tray icons!) (=
Also, I do think option C would be unnecessary. Simply having a link to D/L the Mp3 would be sufficient in my opinion.
Why would you need a seperate link to download the mp3? Just link to the mp3 and people can save the mp3 if they prefer to have it downloaded instead.
And please podcast it if you do go mp3!
Eliminate A, B and C.
Eliminate B & C. Keep the bitrate at 64k or better.
The general consensus seems to be that the mp3 files should be encoded at a minimum bit rate of 64 kbps. However, no one has mentioned the sample rate (frequency) that should be used. The standard sample rate for audio CDs is 44.1 kHz. However for talk radio, I *think* that you should be able to get away with encoding at half this level (i.e., at 22.05 kHz), which should reduce the file size significantly.
Also, I personally don’t care about adding any special “podcasting” technology. Clicking on the link to download the mp3 file is simple enough for me.
I download the files to my Axim Pocket PC which has both RealPlayer and Windows Media. I can listen to shows anytime I want. It is great. You should really push this!
C is not necessary. Mp3 Download is more than adequate, and would greatly increase the scope of your ministry. I can’t wait until this is done!
>I *think* that you should be able to get away with encoding at half this level (i.e., at 22.05 kHz), which should reduce the file size significantly.
True; even 11 kHz would be passable. But I’d say do MP3s encoded with CBR (Constant Bit Rate), 22.050 kHz, Mono, 64 kbps, and you should be fine.
One thing to consider: iTunes 4.9 (when it comes out) will be including a built-in podcasting section, so people who have iPods or use iTunes (a free program that’s much better than Real Player) to listen to audio can easily subscribe, in addition to the many people who use other methods to listen.
For more information about podcasting, visit iPodder.org or engadget.
I would stick with a sample rate of 44kHz — What is commonly called “Red Book Audio”. I’ve played around with other sample rates and have been unsatisfied.
I think the suggestion to look into Peter Kreefts website MP3 managment is also an excellent idea. I’ve downloaded his MP3 series on how to show the evidence for God to atheists and the sound quality (as well as the content) is wonderful.
Stick with a constant bitrate. A variable bitrate works on computers and dedicated MP3 players but doesn’t work well if burned and played on some DVD players for instance (like mine or older MP3 players). It sounds like they are talking under water on my DVD player with MP3 recorded variable bitrates.
Mono for sure, not stereo. This isn’t music. Why spend resources for stereo (more money for CA and more wait time for us to download files).
Go with 64kbps quality (or more). It may take a little longer to download, but 64 kbps is very do-able right now even on “slow download net connections” like I have. Sooner or later everyone will have high speed internet and you’ll probably be discussing much higher qualities. The 64 will work now and in the future. The 64 will also be more audible in cars as mentioned above.
Thanks Jimmy for your great blog site!
To borrow a phrase you often use . . .
“Hope this helps.”
1. it is not needed
2. 64Kbps or higher is better
Like most of the other posters, I try to avoid Real as much as possible. QuickTime has always given me problems (audio breaks up constantly). Windows Media Player works well for me allowing portability between my various PCs, laptops, and smartphone.
Absolutely no need for link 3. We’d downlaod it anyway and listen at our leisure.
Jimmy,
The extra link is not needed, but you might want to have a high-bandwidth (good quality) and low bandwidth (lower quality) mp3. I personally would love to download a high quality file even if its around 20MB but I know others may not have as fast a connection or desire for as high a fidelity that I do.
Real = Really Bad
MP3 is the way to go but the trick is a good codec. Many people have Windows Media Player so WMA is also an option, it is good at protecting copyright, and it can produce smaller file size.
I recomend using dB Poweramp ttp://www.dbpoweramp.com/
but get an older version as it was free then. It is super easy, super customizable, and you can set it up and walk away.
For talk, you can compress at 14:1 or higher, mono, 22 kHZ, (or about 0.6 MB per min) and it will sound just fine. Compression tends to accentuate the artifacts and static so a cleaner master will allow you to increase the compressed file.
There are other means for compressing at a better rate but since this is for the public you want to use as common a file type as possible.
Pax,
While the majority of people will probably use option 4. I think having option 3 is good for those who just want to listen to it right away.
Like most other people I think you could just get rid of Real Audio.
It would be really good if you had a page indexed to be read by podcast readers.
Dear Jimmy,
I just consulted with “Computer Experts Inc.” also known as my son. He says forget options A and B. He and his friends all avoid putting “Real” on their computers (spyware, nagware, enough surpriseware to startle a jack-in-the-box, etc. etc.).
He liked John’s idea about a high bandwidth and a low bandwidth (i.e. 64 kbps) MP3 download connection.
The high bandwidth may cause problems with your Internet Service Provider though as they would need to allocate more bandwidth for this.
My son is going to go consult with some of his technology colleagues (his friends) and if they have any other suggestions, I’ll let you know.
Very astute comments by your readers I might add.
Yay! I also dislike Real player and refuse to install it, and thus have been unable to listen to the shows.
I think providing an mp3 download link is all you need.
Real Audio, in my opinion isn’t necessary.
Please don’t use variable bit rate (VBR) encoding on the MP3s – I have a Motorola MP3 player and it’s impossible to fast-forward or accurately bookmark VBR files. I believe that the Motorola uses the same software as Rio players, so this could be a problem for quite a few people.
Also, please consider publishing an RSS feed for the show that uses the “enclosure” tag for the MP3 files, thus allowing users to catch the show “podcast style”.
Being able to get the show in MP3 format is great news!
I’d be happy to see the Real format disappear. Like Michael I’ve downloaded then converted to mp3 for my portable, and it adds a lot to the time from start to finish since the converter I use (dbpoweramp) can only convert in real-time.
I normally listen with headphones and have found 16kbps at 16kHz to be adequate. I like John’s idea of two download options: low and high quality files.
Everything Jeff Miller (or, his son) said 🙂
An MP3-only offering is a feasible way to go; one link for higher quality and one link for lower quality. You could just make the links two static links to two different files so that people can stream it OR download it either same link, and avoid the “Download” “Stream” /”Download” “Stream” clutter).
I haven’t talked to anyone who actually likes Real Player. Jeff Miller’s son is right; people I talk to try like the dickens to avoid installing it. I do have it on Linux and I appreciate Real’s support for Linux, but like someone else said, it is a memory hog and far from my top choice of player. I also find that the quality of Real formats leaves something to be desired. Sometimes I have trouble understanding your callers on CA, even with good equipment.
Please avoid anything that can only be played if you have Windows Media Player (.wma files) or Quicktime (whatever their audio files are–aiff?). The project that allows us Linux users to listen to these types of files may be shutting down due to legal reasons (although at this time, I can play those formats, and there’s a small chance that the legal matter can be ironed out). MP3, although technically also a proprietary format, is not limited to one particular player, and is likely to be available to everybody for a long time to come–therefore, an excellent choice and one reason MP3 has become so popular. I just ask that you consider this in light of the fact that there are probably more Linux users than most people think–we outnumber Mac users now. So we really should make compatibility a focus so nobody has to lose out.
I meant, what Hippocrates (or his son) said. The Posted by: attributes here are a little confusing because there’s a line under the post making you think everything under that is a new post with the author’s name at the top. Nevermind 🙂
I’ll just add my “me too!” – I’m really looking forward to being able to listen to CAL as .mp3 as I won’t do RealPlayer either. Please PLEASE have an RSS feed for podcast aggregators! My husband and I love listening to Fr. Roderick’s Catholic Insider and Jayson Franklin’s Catholic Cast – and can’t forget Rob and Sarah’s Catholic Mormon podcast (all available via PodcastAlley). I *SO* want to add Catholic Answers Live to my playlist!
Yes, please, please have an RSS feed for podcasting.
I download and then listen to the real audio format all the time. I have thought about converting to mp3 so I could listen on the road with one of the many players. I would like to be able to download read audio and podcast mp3.
Just please please supply an rss feed with the proper enclosures. I prefer 64kbps, that’s probably a good compromise between size and sound quality. However, the important thing is that you include an rss feed!
I’ve been hoping and hoping for this! I used to listen via my laptop piped through my car stereo because I don’t have a portable player that supports Real Media.
44khz is very good. According to Odeo, some online players have a hard time with feeds that aren’t in multiples of 11 (22,44, etc).
If the Vatican is doing it (http://105live.vaticanradio.org/) so should CA Live!
Jimmy,
I’m addicted to PodCasting! I would love to subscribe to a Jimmy Akin PodCast Show. Hint, Hint 😉 I really enjoy the Catholic Cast, Catholic Insider, The BreadCast, Rosary Army, and there are a couple others I subscribe to. I am a supporter of Catholic Answers. I joined the Raio Club two years ago. I listen in my car on the way to work. Keep up the awsome work.
Brother in Christ,
Josh