A reader writes:
How do you respond when someone says to you something like: "Country X is a predominantly Catholic country, but that country is rife with crime, violence, corruption, etc., etc. So being Catholic doesn’t seem to do anything for helping to produce morally upright people. This fact detracts from your claim that the Catholic Church is the true Church."
It does detract from the claim but does not neutralize it. Sin is a scandal, but looking at the perceived moral life of a nation does not tell one whether the majority religion of its inhabitants is true or not.
Look at the history of Israel prior to the time of Christ and all the sins that were committed in it. Did that stop Israel from being the chosen people? Did it stop Judaism from being the true religion? Yet the Old Testament is filled with condemnations of the Jewish people’s sins and even accuses them of sinning worse than the gentiles.
Further, look at countries today that have no experience of Christianity. They’re not exactly filled with moral goodness either. Neither are historically Protestant countries (like America) where abortion and stem cell research are legal and gay marriage is actually under discussion.
It’s simply impossible to establish the kind of correlations between different Christian religious affiliations and moral practice that the person wants to make.
Which is why Jesus didn’t propose this to us as a test of the true religion. He said we can spot false teachers by their bad behavior, but we can’t spot false religions by the behavior of there adherents.
When I was becoming a Catholic, I often reminded myself that I must not judge Catholicism by the behavior of Catholics. If I had, in pre-Christian times, judge Judaism by the behavior of Jews, I would have missed the true religion.
You know how you can tell that the Catholic Church is of divine origin?
It’s lasted two thousand years in spite of the best efforts of the Catholics. 0:)
As a Brazilian, I’ve heard this more than once. I’ve also heard that the developed countries are what they are thanks to embracing Protestantism, but that argument falls on its face when capitalism was invented in Catholic Venice and Flanders, way before Luther.
No, the problem with Brazil and most of Latin America is the fact that they were colonies of absolute monarchies, where there was no such thing as a law of the land, only alaw of the day. And this tradition persists, that’s why I don’t live in Brazil any longer. 😉
May Our Lady of Guadalupe intercede for Latin America.
>Which is why Jesus didn’t propose this to us as a test >of the true religion
But what about “by their fruits you shall know them”?
Of course, the problem is not the Catholic faith itself (if people actually followed it, there would be no corruption, violence, and crime).
Francis: “By their fruits you shall know them” is the passage I have in mind when I write (just after what you quote) “He said we can spot false teachers by their bad behavior, but we can’t spot false religions by the behavior of there adherents.”
The “their” in “their fruits” are false teachers, not false religions.
Jimmy:
What does it mean to be a false teacher? Doesn’t a false teacher teach false things?
When ever anybody makes this kind of arguement, I always counter with: “Imagine how bad it would be if it weren’t Catholic!”
Well — it is possible that they might be better off.
“When an unclean spirit goes out of a person it roams through arid regions searching for rest but finds none. Then it says, ‘I will return to my home from which I came.’ But upon returning, it finds it empty, swept clean, and put in order. Then it goes and brings back with itself seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they move in and dwell there; and the last condition of that person is worse than the first. Thus it will be with this evil generation.”
Though that is one of the more cryptic sayings of the gospels.
Compare Christianized nations to atheistic ones (former Soviet Union, Communist China, North Korea). ‘Nough said.
Probably not short enough to be a quip, but I use it:
The Catholic Church is not dependent upon its members for its holiness. No matter how great its members may become, they will never be able to achieve the holiness of its founder, Jesus Christ.
A lot of countries, especially in South and Central America, have a reputation for being “Catholic” countries when in fact, the governments there have been actively suppressing Catholicism in one way or another since the Liberal revolutions of the late 1800s. When someone says a place is a “Catholic country” check your facts. Be sure and look for: violent Liberal or leftist control, Communism, Masonic movements, the CIA’s historical involvement, and whether or not the ruling “class” is generally of one faith (or no faith) while the rest of the country really is Catholic. You may be surprised when you know the full story.
Usually when truly Catholic countries are corrupt, it is because the clergy has been cowed or outright corrupted by external forces. It takes a lot of courage to stand up to the mafia, guerillas, or terrorists and not everyone has the desire to embrace true martyrdom in this life. And so people who commit unspeakable acts think they are receiving absolution even when they lack the necessary remorse and resolve to not do the same sin again.
But there are out there really great societies that are uniquely Catholic. A Mayan village in Guatemala was once surprised to hear about Catholics in America: “We didn’t think there were any Catholics in America.” Though extremely poor, their life revolves around the Church and people who go there do not want to ever leave.
One could also argue that to the extent that Protestantism is influenced by Catholicism it is also destined to raise good, fruitful societies.
Am I the only who thinks that if Catholics were somehow magically transported off the Earth, that the first thing to fall would be Protestantism? It would dissolve into violent fundamentalism and relativistic universalism. For such is the fate of all un-poped faiths.
Historically, in order for truly evil movements like Nazi-ism, or Communism to rise, one of the first things you need to do is to put the Catholic Church on the chopping block. To the extent that Catholics are united in resistance to such movements, those movements usually fail and the well-being of Earth is protected. So there.
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