A spoiler, for those who may not be familiar with the term, is a revelation about something that happens in a work of fiction (a book, movie, TV show, etc.) that might spoil the story for someone who hasn’t seen it.
Minor revelations (e.g., Obi-Wan rides a Giant Battle Iguana-Chicken What Goes "Awp! Awp!" in a few scenes) are not spoilers, but more significant revelations (e.g., "No, Luke . . . I am your father!") are.
Lemme suggest a new concept, though: The Anti-Spoiler.
An anti-spoiler is a revelation that something does not occur in a work of fiction. Anti-spoilers can be useful in that they can help folks who haven’t seen/read the work not get their hopes up for something particular to happen that they may be imagining.
With that in mind, lemme give you an anti-spoiler about Episode III, though I’ll put it in a spoiler swipe in case you really don’t want to know it even though it’s something that doesn’t happen in the film. Select the text to see the anti-spoiler:
<SWIPE>Annakin does not fall into lava in the movie. Don’t go into the film with your heart set on seeing Hayden Christiansen falling into lava and screaming with pain–as tempting as that image may be as retribution for his acting in Episode II.</SWIPE>
Now, in case you read the anti-spoiler and need a little context to understand it given what you have probably seen in the previews for the movie, here’s a minor, minor spoiler (given that it’s all over the previews and mentioned in countless reviews) to help give you the context you may need:
<SWIPE>Annakin’s final confrontation with Obi-Wan does occur in a lava-infested environment which is very dangerous and dramatic. He just doesn’t fall into the lava. Heat from the lava does play a role in what happens, though.</SWIPE>
Hope those are helpful if you haven’t seen the movie! Didn’t want you thinking they were going to do something that they don’t, in fact, do.
Now,
BELOW IS A COMBOX FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE (OR WHO DON’T CARE ABOUT SPOILERS). IT’S A SPOILER-FRIENDLY ZONE! HAVE AT IT!
WARNING: THIS IS A SPOILER-FRIENDLY COMBOX. IF YOU DON’T WANT TO READ SPOILERS ABOUT EPISODE III, GO DOWN YONDER TO THE PREVIOUS POST AND YOU’LL FIND A SPOILER-FREE COMBOX. THANKS!
“She does not get eaten by the eels at this time.”
Jimmy, I really gotta disagree with your post below about the effectiveness of Anikan’s turn to the dark side. I mean basically his motivation to become a child-murdering uber-villain goes something like this:
Palpatine: You know how you think that Padme might possibly die in childbirth, well if you become uber-villainous and immersed in the dark side you might possibly be able to bring her back from her possible death. And you can be sure to trust me, because I totally have been honest and truthful with everyone over these past years by killing millions in a war I concocted to make a mad power grab. Its like the old saying, “If you can’t trust a Evil-Lying-Murderous Dictator wannabe, who can you trust?”
Anikan: *pause* Well, I don’t know . . .
Palpatine: Oh come on, turn to the dark side . . . I’ll be your friend.
Anikan: Ok, but if you’re wrong, you owe me a coke.
My wife and I were a little surprised at how graphic this film was, especially when Annakin got all his limbs save his artificial one (irony?) cut off, and was subsequently burnt to a crisp.
Though the graphic nature didn’t bother us so much, it did kind of bother us the way the first two films seemed to be going out of the way (Jar Jar, etc.) to draw a younger audience in, and then Lucas created a film which contains material that a good portion of that younger crowd probably isn’t mature enough for yet.
Anyone else get this feeling?
Jordan: I appreciate the cleverness of your dialogue, and I agree with you in part, though not fully.
The part I agree with is the child-killing business. This was TOO dark, TOO quick after Anakin becomes a Sith. It was the element that I mentioned in my original post as the one I could have done without and that I thought harmed the story. It’s also what I was thinking of when I expressed a desire for a more gradual descent from newborn Sithboy into irrational supervillanry.
My comments were, rather, directed to the point *up to which* Anakin becomes a Sith. While this ain’t flawless either, it’s at least intelligible why he takes the path he does.
Anakin is being driven by powerful emotions (to save his wife from death) against an ominous character backstory (having lost his mother and being driven into a murderous rage upon that event, revealing how strongly he’s driven by fear and rage at the idea of loss) and he’s been given a seemingly convincing case that the Jedi are trying to take over the Republic and subvert democracy.
While the actions of the Jedi Council are (startlingly) short sighted, they seem positively perfect for driving Anakin to the Dark Side. Though the Council has reason to think that Anakin is the Chosen One, they’ve been treating the kid like the plague since he was seven years old, they’ve held him back at every turn, and in this movie they overtly DISS him (no “Master” title for you, kid!) immediately before ASKING HIM TO BECOME THEIR SPY! (It being really short sighted to make someone resent you with a passion just before entrusting him with a delicate mission only he can perform.)
Anakin then–at the crucial moment–sees the head of the council apparently about to kill a (now) defenseless man in violation of Jedi ideals (with Anakin feeling guilty about having recently violated this particular ideal himself).
There’s a kind of emotional logic for one at that point to strike out at what one sees as the hypocrisy of one you resent who is about to kill a (seemingly) defenseless man who is the key to saving your wife from death and preventing a recurrence of what happened to your mother.
So up to that point I think that the film is doing a much better job than I expected (though the actions of the Jedi Council are simply boneheaded) in pushing Anakin to embrace the Dark Side.
It is what happens next (the “I solemnly swear to be a loyal Sithboy” scene and the horrific, off-camera child killing) that my major criticisms are directed to. If Lucas had simply toned down the first scene and omitted the latter as a plot element I think the film would have been better and have allowed Anakin to descend into supervillanry in a more natural manner by the end of the film (when he fights Obi-Wan and the Emperor tells him about Padme’s fate).
Whatever happened to, “I haven’t gone by the name Obi-Wan since all before you were born”?
Adam N: Yes, this film is darker than the others. This is especially problematic given how kid-oriented Lucas made Episode I (even endowing it with a flatulence joke and the noxious Jar-Jar).
But Lucas has been abundant in his warnings that this film is *NOT* for small children, and it has a PG-13 rating. That at least somewhat makes up for the situation.
(Though, as indicated, I think the film would simply be better without what Anakin does to the younglings.)
Vincent: That part may be true. (What he says is “since, oh, before you were born”–I’m watching Episode IV right now and just saw this scene.)
Kenobi is still being called Obi-Wan through most of the film, but by the time Luke is born he’s on the lam and may be supposed to have decided to drop the name. (Though someone who already knows the name uses it after Luke is born.)
It’s a delicate matter, but parsing things finely, he may be right . . . from a certain point of view.
I haven’t seen the film yet, but isn’t there precedent for his killing youngsters? He did kill all the sand people after his mother died, men, women, and children. Perhaps it still doesn’t make sense in context — I’ll have to see it first to form an opinion — but it’s really hard to maintain that he didn’t have that in him yet.
How would you guys interpret Obi-Wan’s line: “Only the Sith deals in absolutes!”
As Steve Gredydanus commented in his review: “Really? The Jedi rejection of the dark side isn’t absolute?”
If Lucas is trying to promote a sort of relativism here–which I perceived he did–then it really ruined the movie for me. How can you take an epic movie about the battle between good and evil seriously when Obi-Wan (noble good guy) starts preachin’ wishy-washy relativism?
Maybe I interpreted incorrectly. What do ya’ll think?
+J.M.J+
That “absolutes” line was in response to Anakin’s statement “If you’re not with me then you’re my enemy,” As some have pointed out, this is what President Bush said to the other nations of the world re. the War on Terror: You are either for or against us. (of course, Jesus said something rather similar once, but that’s another story).
So some believe that Lucas is letting his politics slip in here, by portraying Bush as a “Sith” and rebuking POTUS’s “absolutes” through the mouth of Obi Wan.
(Incidentally, Greydanus’ comment was exactly what I though when Obi Wan said that. “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny” – that’s not absolute???)
Lucas’ political slip was also showing in a curious segment earlier in the film, when Padme questioned whether the war was even worth fighting. I’ve heard liberals say before that America as a Republic is dead, and has been replaced by an “Empire”. Sound familiar?
And then there’s her later statement about democracy dying “to the sound of thunderous applause” (something like that). IMHO, if democracy ever dies in the US, it will be to the sound of a pounding gavel. But that’s just MHO.
Anyway, sorry to drag everyone down by bringing politics into it – even if Lucas did so first. 🙂
In Jesu et Maria,
My take:
It’s the best of the prequels. But the first two prequels were so flawed that this isn’t saying a whole lot.
The Bad:
The romantic chemistry was worse than ever: “Hold me Anakin. Hold me like you did on Nabbo.” Barf.
Padme was just terrible. When did she become his wussified wall flower that just stood around helpless all the time? Where did the brave leader of a whole planet go? Where’s the lady who was fighting right along side the Jedi at the end of the last movie? Somewhere along the line she really became a wimp.
So wimpy in fact that she died FOR NO REASON? Died of a broken heart? Oh please. The acting was way too poor to sell that. Nothing to live for? Yeah right. How about your two little children?! I really dislike what they did to her character.
For 30 years we’ve heard that Vader “helped the Emperor hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights.” Somehow I never pictured that all this amounted to was slaughtering a room full of children while Stormtoopers killed the rest of the Jedi for him.
Killing the children. Way to dark, way too fast. Something must have been cut out of the movie that made this make more sense…
The Good:
The ending battle with Obi-Wan was well done.
The scenes of betrayal of the Jedi were very nicely done.
The Emperor was awesome. Great acting and I really liked how he was deformed by his fight with Windu.
Speaking of Windu, he died well. I’m happy he didn’t get shot in the back or anything. Although it’s sad that I even had to worry that they’d do something dumb like that.
I really liked the opening with Anakin and Obi-Wan in the fighters and the droids. All of that was quite cool.
I liked the inclusion of the wookies. I’m not terribly thrilled with them totally changing everything we thought we knew about Chewbacca. All this time he was a wookie leader that fought along side Yoda? Ummm… ok… I’m very skeptical about that. But I’m willing to ponder it a bit more. I may decide it’s cool if it’s all part of Yoda’s master plan. Anything that makes Yoda look good can’t be all bad. 🙂 Anyway, I really liked seeing large numbers of Wookies in battle.
While I’m sad that it had as many flaws as it did, I still enjoyed it overall.
Jimmy–I don’t think he was sincere when he pledged himself to the Emperor. Not with all that he says to Padme later and what he says to Luke in ESB.
As for murdering the younglings . . . I think that he thought it was the only way to go deep enough into the Dark Side to learn Darth Plagueis’ lore
(And while Palpatine didn’t say “Anakin . . . I am your father”, but he sure hinted at it.)
What upset me was that the movie did not answer three very important questions:
1) What are Anakin’s true origins?
2) What’s with the “becoming one with the Force” bit? What did Qui-Gon discover, and how? Why didn’t his body dematerialize upon death (ditto for every other dead Jedi)?
3) What is the confusing prophecy of “Bringing balance to the Force” supposed to mean in practical terms?
Well, as disturbing as the murder of the younglings is, I did think it would make sense if Anakin had wallowed in disbelief a little longer (just a minute or two) after he helped defeat Windu and “made his choice”. If he had just sat one more minute dumbfounded, and then the emperorer could point out how important Padme was to him, then anything, however terrible, that Anakin did for her presumed safety (wiping out the flawed side of the force) makes sense to some degree.
Eric,
Anakin did bring balance to the force, as he went from good to bad, and became good again, wiping out the last of the Sith.
Actually, this is how I saw it:
Anakin strikes out at Windu from a combination of affection for Palpy and love for justice. Palpy hits out at Windu and Windu is killed.
Anakin realizes he’s made a big booboo. But what is it he was trained to do from childhood? If you can’t win, bide your time, bow your head, and get revenge later.
So he bows his head to Palpy, and starts plotting to find out what Palpy knows and then knock him off. Naturally, he has to be absolutely convincing. And the Jedi are going to want to kill him (and he was mad at them anyway), so all the Jedi have to go. The only people who matter anymore are Padme and her sprog. Everything else is in his way, including not only the kids but his own scruples.
But yes, Anakin definitely needed an aria.
Re: Anakin and Padme —
As I pointed out in a filksong, the whole relationship makes more sense if you assume Anakin is unconsciously using Jedi mind tricks to force Padme to love him. Naturally her mind deteriorates under this strain, but you’ll notice she gets better whenever Anakin’s not around.
I was hoping Padme would figure this out in the end. Unfortunately, Anakin got in first with not just a broken windpipe, but also a too-abrupt severing of his mental hold on her.
Re: Leia and mother memories
“I see dead people.”
Honestly, would you expect really early childhood memories to come with much context? If Padme’s ghost was Leia’s imaginary friend, it wouldn’t surprise me a bit.
I thought this one was much better than Eps I and II, but I agree, Anakin went way too dark way too fast, though I can completely buy his motivation for originally turning. (Especially since the marriage to Padme is supposed to be a huge secret, so he can’t really confide in his fellow Jedi about the exact nature of the visions which are tormenting him; it must have been a relief to talk to *someone* about them). One thing that really bothered me, though, is after he finds out that Padme is dead. Wouldn’t *that* be a great moment to turn on Palpatine – “Hey, you promised me her life and the life of the baby, I slaughtered hundreds of people, and you DIDN’T COME THROUGH!” Of course, if he killed Palpatine right then, it would rather mess with the later three movies, but it was weird that his major reaction seemed to be “No! She was alive, I could feel it!” and then a sort of implicit “Oh well. Anyone else you want offed, my master?”
And yes, Anakin and Padme together were mindbendingly bad; frankly, he had a lot more chemistry with Palpatine. I’d guess this is the result of McDiarmid being one of those wily old Brit actors who’s capable of turning crummy lines into gold and also – more importantly – of directing himself, which it seems like they pretty much had to do since Lucas sure wasn’t going to do it for them. It certainly seemed like everyone who shared a scene with him magically became a 500% better actor for the duration; truly the Dark Side is powerful!
This movie suffered from two disasterous prequels in which nothing of any import actually happens. As a friend of mine pointed out, the first two should have been one movie and this one should have been two. Palpatine’s seduction of Anakin should have been shown happening more subtly and gradually over the last two films with only the moment of catastrophe happening in this film.
Anakin just wasn’t deep enough in the dark side to kill all the younglings with so little remorse as this movie implies. It all happens way too fast because of all the time Lucas wasted in I and II.
And I’m of the opinion that Lucas’s moral compass discovers a new north pole every five minutes or so. If he really is all about “point of view” when it comes to truth and right, where was that when he puts the “point of view” point of view in Anakin’s mouth right before the end of his fight with Obi-Wan? But then again, maybe Lucas just can’t write intelligent dialogue.
Decent movie. You might call it deuterocanonical. As opposed to positively apocryphal (like Phantom and Clones).
“Anakin did bring balance to the force, as he went from good to bad, and became good again, wiping out the last of the Sith.”
You call this being balanced?
Weren’t the Sith extinct for thousands of years anyway until relatively recently, as far as the prequels were concerned? And are we to believe that, after Return of the Jedi, there are to be no dark-side Jedi ever again? So much for the spin-off novels et al . . .
Overall, Episode III was enjoyable, even if it was full of mistakes and continuity flaws. It’s by far the best of the ‘prequels’ (which sucked BIG time). Still not as good as Episode IV, though, but still enjoyable. (Oh, Han Solo, where art thou? *sniff*)
I hated Episode I, and therefore, refused to see Episode II. The funny thing is, I don’t think I missed anything. You can see Episode III without seeing the previous one, and you can understand the movie quite well. In my opinion, the first 2 movies are a waste of time and money, and I mostly pretend they don’t exist.
I have a few questions, though….
How come Anakin became so evil so darn fast, up to the point of killing children? I NEVER saw Darth Vader as being insane at all. He was evil, yes, but not insane. So how to explain his slaughter of innocent children and the attempted killing of his beloved pregnant wife? Lucas should have focused the other two useless prequels to explore his falling into the Dark Side, rather than focusing on the stupid Jar Jar Binks character and the insipid ‘love story’ between Padme and Anakin. Talk about having NO chemistry whatsoever!
Also… just how come Padme dies in childbirth, when Leia, in Episode VI, tells Luke that she did remember her mother? She said that she had died when she was very young (note that she didn’t say: When I was a baby) but that she had some memories of her mother, that she was very beautiful, but sad… and she was not talking about her adoptive mother. Could it be she remebers her mother at birth? If so, how come Luke doesn’t remember her, then? So what the heck!!!
I am curious to see how Lucas attempts to
explain this horrible lack of continuity with his OWN story. Whatever he says, you can bet it will not make any sense.
Wish Episode III had been 2 movies… but nooo, Lucas had to make the horrible Episode I, and then II, which I’m now glad that I didn’t see… oh well.
I think the book is better.
I bought it a couple of weeks ago to read to the kids so i didn’t get 10 000 questions during the movie.
The booke better explains this deep friendship between Anakin and Obiwan – and the great betrayal when Anakin turns to the dark side.
It shows that the attachment to padme is the reason for the fall. He is too afraid to let go and trust, and would do anything to save her.
It explains the Jedi councils boneheaded moves better – they knew the sith lord was in Palpatine’s close circle of advisers and they sent Anakin to spy on Palpatine to find out who the sith lord is. In the movie, it appears the council is surprised when they found out there was a sith lord involved.
The fall is shown to be such a choice of evil over good – even a choice of relativism over good. Palpatine teached Anakin that the Sith are not bad, they just follow different aspects of the force (justice and security) instead of justice and peace. The Jedi are the ideal of the absolute of Good ( the Truth?) while the Sith are more relativistic. The complete selfishness of his choice to save Padme is better shown – he is saving her for his sake, not for hers.
In the book, Anakin’s choices for anger and selfishness makes his decision to become Palpatine’s apprentice much more believable. He is already evil when he kneels before Palpatine. Killing the kids doesn’t seem so out of character.
Best thing for the kids from the book is the explanation of the consequences of choosing evil. If you choose to make yourself the center of your life, in the end all you have is YOURSELF, forever. Kind of like hell.
For what it’s worth, here’s my take:
To me, it made sense for Anikin to “convert” the way he did. It was a little too fast, but it’s not like he was fully convinced in the Sith “doctrine”, as is made pretty clear (although he eventually adopts it wholeheartedly). And yes, he did already slaughter children to achieve an evil goal (exacting revenge) in Clones. I’d imagine even such a terrible act as that gets easier after the first time. I think that was Lucas’ way of showing just how evil one can be when selfishness and self-centeredness become the goal.
Anikin’s origins were explained. Palpatine talked about a “powerful Sith Lord”, Darth Plaguis, or something, who was so strong in the force, he could command the midi-whatevers to create life. He then taught this to his apprentice, who then killed him.
Obviously that apprentice was Palpatine, who used that new power to create Anikin in the body of a slave woman, where no one would notice. HE could then use that boy for his own purposes. It was an evil Sith mockery of a Virgin Birth, and it also makes Palpatine Anikin’s father, of sorts. Another way Lucas communicates how evil the Sith are supposed to be.
The balance prophecy, as Yoda says, may have been misinterpreted. Perhaps all the jedi think “balance” is a good thing, but the prophecy wasn’t about a good thing — it was about literal balance: two sith, two jedi. Possibly Vader killing the Emperor and turning back in jedi was the fulfillment. Perhaps Luke was the redemptive aspect of the prophecy because, for a while at least, Vader refused to play his part. Lots of interesting possibilities.
Leia never knew she was adopted. The mother she remembers is Bail Organa’s wife.
Qui-Gon is the first jedi to learn how to commune with the force and “keep” his body, kind of like an Enoch or Elijah. Remember, he differed from the council on some unspecified issue; apparently he was right and they weren’t. He somehow learned to speak and “be” from beyond (I believe this is made more clear in a deleted scene).
As to the difference, we know Qui-Gon espoused a view of the “Living Force”, that has a will of its own, which none of the other jedi talk about. As such, his view is more Christian as opposed to the faulty dualistic/Buddhist views of the other jedi; he is rewarded for it, and is apparently (according to Yoda) responsible for leading the other jedi down the same good path. A stretch? Maybe, but it makes sense.
The political stuff? Lucas did write the story arc decades ago, and while it isn’t impossible that modern political sentiment snuck it’s way in, I didn’t see it. Palpatine is much closer to Napoleon or Caesar, or Putin, than Bush. If it was an attack on Bush, it was heavy-handed and rediculously inaccurate. Bush hasn’t taken more powers to himself, hasn’t moved to be in charge in 2009 . . . I think Lucas, despite being liberal, is smarter than that.
I read the “absolutes” comment by Obi-Wan as one more wasted moment by the jedi to turn Anikin back. They all give him bad advice: Mace, Yoda, Obi-Wan, even Padme. Again, Lucas is bad at dialogue, but a smart man. He knows that moral absolutes are necessary; that’s why we root for the good guys, why child murder is wrong, why Anikin is partly turned because of other jedi’s (and his own) disobedience to a sworn code, even if the actions taken might have been justifiable outside the oath.
Mace was right: Palpatine wouldn’t have received a fair trial because he controlled the courts; he WAS too dangerous. A valid case of tyranicide as there was for Hitler; Mace’s problem was that he was striking in anger, and had sworn loyalty to a code of chivalry that wouldn’t have allowed that action. This is a confusing moment for Anikin, who committed the same “sin” of oathbreaking and turning justice into vengeance.
What about Yoda, and his “have no attachments” speech? And yet filial and paternal attachments are what save Vader and Luke in jedi. Sounds like Yoda had it wrong . . .
Sorry this was so exceptionally lengthy. I’ve been thinking about this a long time!
Leia never knew she was adopted. The mother she remembers is Bail Organa’s wife.
No, Luke explicitly askes, “Leia… do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”
If she didn’t know she was adopted, she would have asked “My real mother?” Luke would have had to break to her that she was not the child of her apparent parents before the news of who her father and brother were.
As it is, she should have asked, “How did you know?”
(Humm. I wonder when she was told. It would be a nice thing, all things being equal, to tell her young so it wasn’t a shock — but it had to be kept secret. A small child’s discretion could not be trusted.)
For the all-time Star Wars continuity blooper — did you read the novelization of the first one? With the scene where Obi-Wan tells Luke about his father? You see, it’s told from his POV, and he explicitly thinks that he could not take refuge in a comfortable lie, the way his uncle could. He has to tell the truth about how his father was murdered.
As a writer, I must say that there are some ideas in Star Wars that could be interesting with proper development. And proper development would make them so unlike Star Wars that you could not be accused of plagarism.
Pointed out on another msg board:
Shortly after Obi-Wan’s “Only a Sith deals in absolutes” there’s the following exchange:
ANAKIN: “From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.”
OBI-WAN: “Then you are lost!”
A pretty “absolute” statement right there by Master Kenobi. It was suggested that his “deals in absolutes” statement has to do with RELATIONSHIPS, not MORALITY. Real world example (I thought of this): a Christian keeping contact with a friend who has gotten an abortion, vs. cutting off all contact with the friend.
Come to think of it, I never thought of the “your real mother” comment by Luke in Jedi. It would have been nice to know how Leia found out she was adopted. There’s no indication that she’s aware of it.
That being the case, I assumed she just passed over the “real mother” comment and described the only mother she knew. But you’re right, of course; this is a definite continuity error that we are stretching to a fine point to compensate.
On the other hand, Lucas will almost certainly correct these things on a box-set re-release (although then I’m stuck with that rotten Jabba’s Palace dance scene addition). Also, he’s got a Star Wars TV show in the mix coming two years from now, and all six films coming soon, in 3-D. No kidding.
Leia’s a princess, the daughter of a king/senator and a queen. I hardly think Mrs. Organa was plump enough that nobody would notice that _she hadn’t been pregnant_ before a kid shows up. So unless the good folk of Alderaan believed that the stork did baby drops, I think it would be a well-known fact that she was adopted.
+J.M.J+
>>>Palpatine is much closer to Napoleon or Caesar, or Putin, than Bush.
True, but I doubt liberals would see it that way. Don’t forget that they have been comparing Bush to *Hitler* for a while now.
>>>If it was an attack on Bush, it was heavy-handed and rediculously inaccurate.
Definitely.
>>>Bush hasn’t taken more powers to himself,
Liberals would beg to differ; they’d probably point to the Patriot Act or something.
>>>What about Yoda, and his “have no attachments” speech? And yet filial and paternal attachments are what save Vader and Luke in jedi. Sounds like Yoda had it wrong . . .
Remember in Episode V when Luke wants to leave Dagobah to save his friends, and Yoda insists that he stay and complete his training? Luke asks him “And sacrifice Han and Leia?” to which Yoda replies “If you value what they fight for, Yes!”
Not too unlike the “Have no attachments” speech, huh?
In Jesu et Maria,
what?.. no… what?.. that’s not an “anti-spoiler”… it’s a *spoiler*.
Your new concept is flawed!
Let’s make pretend I hadn’t already seen the film..
the when the lavascene comes and everyone else is on the edge of their seats thinking “ZOMG! WILL HE DROP INTO THE LAVA!?” I’ll be cool going “nah, ‘s coo. Jimmy-boy said it didn’t happen.”
even if you tell people what didn’t happen, it’s still a spoiler. FLAWED concept. FLAWED! BAD JIMMY! BAD!
“Reservoir dogs.. well I won’t spoil it.. but they DIDN’T make it out of there alive. It’s coo’.. it’s not a spoiler..”
Veronica writes:
Also… just how come Padme dies in childbirth, when Leia, in Episode VI, tells Luke that she did remember her mother? She said that she had died when she was very young (note that she didn’t say: When I was a baby) but that she had some memories of her mother, that she was very beautiful, but sad… and she was not talking about her adoptive mother. Could it be she remebers her mother at birth? If so, how come Luke doesn’t remember her, then? So what the heck!!!
Thank you! I just saw the movie and this is bugging the heck out of me. I was half expecting to find out after Padme’s funeral that she had faked her death to hide from Darth Vader, and that there would be some indication of closeness between her and Organa, since Leia’s full name is “Princess Leia Organa.”
As it was, I think Lucas assumed the mother had been around in Leia’s youth when he made Episode VI, but changed his mind.
BTW, can a character ever “jump the shark”? If so, I vote for Padme’s character jumping somewhere around the time Anakin told her he’d slaughtered a village and she didn’t take it as a sign that he might not be the right man for her.
Edward writes:
Shortly after Obi-Wan’s “Only a Sith deals in absolutes” there’s the following exchange:
IMO, this was a dumb line, especially considering that it’s Palpatine who is arguing that the dark and light sides of the force are morally equivalent. I wonder if the dialogue writer (Lucas?) was himself conflicted on this point, realizing the dangers of relativism on the one hand while being something of a relativist on the other. But then, it is consistent with Obiwan’s explanation of his lie to Luke, “Well, there are different ways of understanding the truth … what I said was ‘true’ in a way…”
I hardly think Mrs. Organa was plump enough that nobody would notice that _she hadn’t been pregnant_ before a kid shows up. So unless the good folk of Alderaan believed that the stork did baby drops, I think it would be a well-known fact that she was adopted.
She could have gone into seclusion on grounds that it was dangerous out there — if she knew it was needed. But I think you’ve hit on an continuity flaw. From the Return of the Jedi
“no one knew she’d been adopted, of course.”
“Padme was just terrible. When did she become his wussified wall flower that just stood around helpless all the time? Where did the brave leader of a whole planet go? Where’s the lady who was fighting right along side the Jedi at the end of the last movie? Somewhere along the line she really became a wimp.”
Padme didn’t become the wuss they showed her to be in this movie. I agree, much of her as a woman was lost, but she plays in political intrigue just as much as she always did – only it got cut from Episode III. Read the novelization if you’d like to find her again.
According to the credits, Princess Leia’s adoptive mother is the Queen of Alderaan, so it wasn’t like nosy neighbours could just drop by and notice how flat her stomach was. Granted, there’d be all that palace staff who’d be in on the secret, but doubtless they had loyalty oaths and/or could be bribed to keep their mouths shut :). Maybe “no one” in this case meant “No one outside the immediate family/royal circle,” which, when your adoptive mother is a queen, is kind of plausible.
+J.M.J+
>>>Padme was just terrible. When did she become his wussified wall flower that just stood around helpless all the time?
Well, she was pregnant throughout the whole film. When I was pregnant I certainly wouldn’t have been up to fighting alongside men or anything like that. She was probably too tired, nauseous, emotional and concerned with the safety of her offspring to run around blasting baddies this time.
In Jesu et Maria,
Let’s also remember that Padme is the same woman who didn’t walk away when her boyfriend told her he’d slaughtered a village.
Let’s also remember that Padme is the same woman who didn’t walk away when her boyfriend told her he’d slaughtered a village.
Yeah, but they were Sandpeople. It’s not like they were human. She was just allowing him to exercise his choice to terminate non-humans. Afterall, the life of his mother was at stake.
Mac: Sorry but you’re incorrect. A spoiler is something that reveals information about something unknown that is in a film. An Anti-spoiler is something reveals something unknown that is NOT in a film. It’s a negative spoiler. What you are wanting are NON-SPOILERS. That’s not what he claimed to be demonstrating.
“As it was, I think Lucas assumed the mother had been around in Leia’s youth when he made Episode VI, but changed his mind.”
Yes, that is exactly what I thought when watching Episode III. But that is still a huge continuity fault, and any efforts to explain it seem VERY far-fetched, no matter how they do it. The logical thing would have been that Padme, instead of letting herself die so helplessly (she even acknowledged that Anakin still had some good in him) leaving her 2 children behind, would make an effort to live for her babies’ sake, and would spend some time with Leia a a child before she passed away. As it was, her death was completely pointless. ‘She lost her will to live’ *sigh*
“BTW, can a character ever “jump the shark”? If so, I vote for Padme’s character jumping somewhere around the time Anakin told her he’d slaughtered a village and she didn’t take it as a sign that he might not be the right man for her.”
Yeah. You’d think she at least wouldn’t be surprised to find out he killed a bunch of innocent Jedi children, but apparently the killing of the Sand People was not much of an issue for her. *shrug*
“Yeah, but they were Sandpeople. It’s not like they were human. She was just allowing him to exercise his choice to terminate non-humans. Afterall, the life of his mother was at stake.”
ROTFL!! That is irony at its very best. 🙂
my take on the movie
First the good. I thought the story was a great improvement over the last two movies and reminded me more of the New Jedi Order book series which has come out in recent years. These books turn the rules of the force upsidedown and major characters are kicked off too. The movie is dark like the books and the characters emotions matter. Plus the perge of the Jedi was sad and shocking and you just didn’t get that with the destruction of Alderan now did you.
But the books in my opinion are always better. I suppose because I’ve been so thoroughly spoiled by the books I find the movies lacking seriously in comparison, but this one was great. I liked the friendship between Anakin and Kenobi and the fight scenes between Yoda and Palpiteen rocked. I can’t give much on the visual side of things… sorry, blind moment, but the lava fight seen was poetic. I think, that a person grows more hateful in hell. They’re stepping on everyone else down there and the more they hurt, the more angry and hateful they become. That is what happened to Anakin and also Macgreger’s acting in this scene especially was great in my opinion.
Bring on the bad.
“Hold me. Hold me like you did on Naboo.” GAG! Everyone else has talked about the quick turn to darkness, and I hole-heartedly agree, killing the kids was way too bad, way too fast, and I also agree with the lack of continuety and since everything has already been said on these points, I won’t repeat any of it. What bothered me a lot and what I really thought Lucas missed out on was to create a deeper friendship between Anakin and Kennobi. It’s good in this film but that’s only in this film. In episode two Anakin is a little whiney brat who needed to be smacked around a little and Kennobi is an arrogant jerk. I think that if Lucas had established a good friendship between the two in the earlier film, Anakin’s betrail and Kennobi’s failure would be more heart-breaking. Anyway, that’s just how I feel, but I’d be willing to see the movie again.
A thought I had.
What killed Padme? Anakin’s turn to the darkside. Why did Anakin turn to the darkside? To save Padme from dying (per his dreams) mainly. So, what he saw in his dreams (her dying-her future) is the result of his response to that vision of the future. So, he thinks that he changed his life-path to save her (by turning Sith) but really it seems it was already in his path to turn Sith, for other reasons (as he had not turned yet, yet he sees the visions of its effects), and that is what kills her. So, he was fated to become Sith, but Padme became what he tought was his personal reason?
So, really, the only way to have prevented her from dying is to remain Jedi, and straighten up his act, and listen to Yoda, and take it day-by-day, and do what the Church, uh I mean council has tought him to be right at every turn.
If only he would have asked himself…in my dreams, where am I? Why is Obi-wan with her instead of me?
Cialis.
Cialis side effects. Cialis. Cialis and drug craving.