Heaven Before Jesus & Luther: The Motion Picture

A reader writes:

I was hoping you could help me with a question I received from my JW brother.

He asked …….."Before Jesus came, What happened to good people when they died? What happened to bad people when they died?"

My belief was that the gates of heaven were open when Jesus died on the cross. However, where then did Elijah go when he was "taken up into heaven"….or Moses for that matter?

Any help would be appreciated.

The state of the typical soul before the time of Christ is not as clear as we would like since the Old Testament is not fully explicit about the matter and the New Testament sometimes says cryptical things about such souls.

It is clear that there was a belief in an afterlife among the Jewish people (contrary to what you hear from some folks today). This belief appears to be reflected in the oft-repeated formula used when someone died "and he was gathered to his people." The belief in the afterlife was so strong that God had to repeatedly warn the Jewish people not to go in for mediumship and necromancy (the channelling or calling up of the dead; cf. Deuteronomy 18).

Nevertheless, if God allowed, such things could happen, as in the famous incident in which Saul consults a medium ("the witch of Endor"–which later gave us the name "Endora" on the Bewitched show) who is able to successfully call up the dead prophet Samuel (who then tells Saul he’s doomed–DOOMED, I TELL YOU!!! So don’t mess with the dead–or Texas–unless you want to be doomed).

The place that the dead are referred to as going is called sh’ol (*not* "shee-oll"), but the meaning of the term is not entirely clear. It may just mean "the grave" but it also may mean "the netherworld." The dead are depicted as being conscious in sh’ol, but their lives there seem rather gloomy. In the Septuagint when hadEs (i.e., hades) is encountered it is normally representing sh’ol in the original Hebrew.

There is not the prospect of being united with God in heaven except in the case of certain rare individuals who are assumed directly into heaven, such as Enoch and Elijah (and maybe Moses). In their cases, the ordinary Hebrew word for "heaven"–sh’mayim–is used to describe where they went. They thus seem to be exceptions to the general rule that most folks didn’t get to go to heaven before Jesus.

(Why people find that concept hard to grasp, I don’t know, but I find myself having to repeatedly tell resistant callers on the radio that Enoch, Elijah, and mayby Moses are what we in the business refer to technically as "exceptions." Maybe it would be clearer if I called them teachers’ pets. *JOKE!*)

In any event, they seemed to get in early in anticipation of what Jesus would do on the cross whereas the rest of us get in afterward looking back at what he did. It’s the credit card/debit card difference.

Later in the Old Testament, as progressive revelation continues, we have the expectation of the resurrection come more to the fore (e.g., Dan 12:2). We also get more detail about what the intermediate state before the resurrection is like. For example, in 2 Maccabees Judah Maccabee has a vision of Jeremiah the prophet, who is praying for the people of Israel in the afterlife.

The most direct description of what the intermediate state we have at this time is actually found in the New Testament, when Jesus tells the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. In that parable Lazarus and Abraham are in a condition described as being one of comfort, while there is a gulf between them and the rich man, who is in torment. Thus the dead of this period seemed to occupy a position in sh’ol in which they enjoyed comfort but did not have the full beatific vision that they would enjoy after Christ.

Now a couple of tips since you mention your brother is a JW:

1) The book of Revelation describes what is going on in heaven now, in the age following Christ, and it repeatedly shows us folks who are conscious and praying and worshipping in heaven (e.g., the martyrs who have been killed).

2) JWs have a misperception of what Christians think heaven is. They have the idea that we think that after the resurrection we’ll leave earth in order to be in God’s presence up yonder. No. At the end of Revelation it is made clear that the new heavens and the new earth will be united, with the city of God coming down from heaven onto earth, so the heavenly, presence-of-God experience and the earthly paradisaical existence will both be enjoyed by the blessed at the same time for "the dwelling place of God [will be] with men." Here’s the text:

Revelation 21

2: And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband;
3: and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them;
4: he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."

The reader also writes:

On another note, a protestant friend of mine suggested we watch the movie "Martin Luther" together. Have you seen this movie? I am a cradle catholic but hadn’t really embraced it until this past year but I am strong in my faith. Can anything good come of a situation like this?

Not much except maybe a good opportunity for you to evangelize your friend by showing him the way the film whitewashes Luther and distorts what really happened.

MORE INFO HERE.

Author: Jimmy Akin

Jimmy was born in Texas, grew up nominally Protestant, but at age 20 experienced a profound conversion to Christ. Planning on becoming a Protestant seminary professor, he started an intensive study of the Bible. But the more he immersed himself in Scripture the more he found to support the Catholic faith, and in 1992 he entered the Catholic Church. His conversion story, "A Triumph and a Tragedy," is published in Surprised by Truth. Besides being an author, Jimmy is the Senior Apologist at Catholic Answers, a contributing editor to Catholic Answers Magazine, and a weekly guest on "Catholic Answers Live." View all posts by Jimmy Akin