A non-Catholic reader writes:
“…the Church’s official position is still that there are definitely people in hell, it just doesn’t claim to know which individuals are.”
Considering the church’s official position, wouldn’t this conflict with those the church declared “saints”? I mean, if they don’t know who is in hell, which is a fair assumption, how can they claim to know who is in heaven? We can assume that we know some are and, like you, I can safely believe that Peter, Paul, and the rest of the gang are there, but past that—I don’t know who’s there.
If the “infallible” church can say with certainty that Mother Teresa, Bernadette Soubirous, John Bosco, Vincent de Paul, etc. are in heaven, why can’t it say with just as much certainty the names of those whom they believe are in hell (Hitler, Stalin, Ivan the Terrible, Pol Pot, et al)?
Later, when it was pointed out that the Church utilizes miracles performed through the intercession of the saints as evidence that they are in heaven, the reader wrote:
First of all, we would have to assume that the church is correct in saying these “saints” are truly in heaven, regardless of miracles and personal testimonies (which again we would have to trust the church on). Secondly, miracles and personal testimonies aren’t truly indicators of salvation. Other pagan religions have their “holy men” who have mimicked the same. Mr. Akin stated that Judas and Nero could be said to be in hell, which, IMO, is a fair estimation. Yet, when the church claims to know with certainty who “made it”, but cannot say for sure who didn’t; well, it’s pretty presumptuous.
Since you’re non-Catholic, it’s understandable that you would not share the epistemology needed to have confidence in the Church’s canonization of saints. However, since the discussion was an intramural one among Catholics, you kind of need to be willing to “go with” that epistemology for purposes of this discussion. We could have a discussion of why the Church has the epistemology it does (it isn’t just making assumptions), but that is a different discussion than this one. (Discussions on blogs need to be fairly narrow in scope because of limitations of format. If we were writing chapter- or book-length entries in the discussion, we could try dealing with both at once, but blog entries are too short, so we need to stick to one issue at a time.)
Regarding the discussion at hand, I think it is possible for the Church to use its gift of infallibility to “canonize the damned,” or “anti-saints” as we might call them:
1) I think this is clearly possible in the case of select individuals like Judas and Nero, for whom we have special revelation regarding their fates. Since the Church has the power to infallibly define the meaning of the revelation given to the Church, it would be possible for the Church to use that infallibility regarding the meaning of the revelation connected with the fate of Judas and a few other individuals. Thus the Church could define that they are in hell; it simply hasn’t done so to this point.
2) I also suspect that the Church might be able to use its infallibility to define the damnation of other individuals. If it can define the dogmatic fact that a particular person is in heaven, this would seem to be prima facie evidence that the Church would also be able to use its infallibility to define that a particular person isn’t in heaven.
3) We could speculate on the evidential basis that could be offered for particular anti-saint definitions. There is an assymetry regarding the evidence we have for the fates of saints and anti-saints (i.e., we have intercessory miracles as evidence for the salvation of saints, but we don’t have the same for the damnation of anti-saints), but this is not an ultimately insuperable problem. Unfortunately, spelling out a detailed rationale would make this entry unduly long and so will have to wait for another time.
4) In any event, the matter is speculative since, as there has been no motivating factor for the Church to define the damnation of anti-saints, it has never done so.
Hope this helps!