In case you forgot to circle the date on your calendar, today is the 522nd birthday of Martin Luther, founder of the Protestant Reformation — or the Protestant Revolt, depending on your point of view — and author of 95 theses that he nailed to a church door in Wittenberg, Germany. Had he been contemplating how best to disseminate his theses today, perhaps he would have blogged them, a la the Internet Monk.
If you’re trying to think of the perfect gift for Luther, might I suggest obtaining a partial or plenary indulgence for his soul? Wherever Luther is now, I’m sure he now knows the value of an indulgence.
“If you’re trying to think of the perfect gift for Luther, might I suggest obtaining a partial or plenary indulgence for his soul? Wherever Luther is now, I’m sure he now knows the value of an indulgence.”
Ah, Michelle, you’re just inviting our reformed friends to come in here and flame you.
I like it though! 😉
Real high school student mistake: “Martin Luther nailed 95 feces to the door of the Wittenberg church.”
I guess he was bound to become famous, one way or another. 🙂
Well, pha, he did say he came up with the idea for sola fide “in cloaca” — on the toilet.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3944549.stm
As the mother of two jarheads I’m busy celebrating the 230th birthday of the United States Marine Corps. Luther can wait another twenty-four hours.
well, unless he is in purgatory, then an indulgence wouldn’t do him much good.
“There are nowadays almost as many sects and creeds as there are heads.” – Martin Luther, on the effects of the Reformation
——-
“…we Protestant Christians, on the contrary, are at ceaseless war together, fighting one another with frenzied, implacable hatred, while every breath of new opinion scatters us about like a whirlwind.” – Matthew Blochinger – circa 1560
I happend upon a blog post the other day that indicated that Luther likely never nailed anything to the castle door. I posted it on my blog here:
http://www.luther.de/en/tanschl.html
Most Catholics are born Catholic. Most Lutherans, Anglicans, Baptists, Moslems, Buddhists, etc. are also born into their faith. Ridiculing their founders is not Christian. Such chastisement is a cancer eating at the heart of our Catholic Faith.
No, Realist, Protestantism (in the Catholic church as well as outside of it) is a cancer eating away at our faith.
I speak of Protestantism as a philosophy, and not to denigrate any individual Protestants.
Heck, I used to BE one!
If you’re trying to think of the perfect gift for Luther, might I suggest obtaining a partial or plenary indulgence for his soul?
Great idea!
BillyHW: You’re gonna buy em, right?
Wherever Luther is now? He’s almost certainly in Hell.
Praised be the Holy Prophet Luther! There is no God but the Triune God and Luther is His Prophet! Of course, the only way to truly celebrate is with some good German beer.
“He’s almost certainly in Hell.”
Come on, you don’t know that!
I looked up Luther in the wikipedia and it said the following: “Luther began to teach that salvation is completely a gift of God’s grace through Christ received by faith.”
Isn’t that the same as the Catholic teaching? Don’t we believe that we are saved by grace, through faith, which is dead without works? Do I have it wrong or does wikipedia?
Luther sparked a revolution that continues today, he wasn’t the first or the only one of his time to do what he did. The last I heard, there are over 33,000 (that’s thirty-three thousand!) different protestant (protest) denominations. The fractionalization of those who believe in Christ is one of the largest and worst scandals ever in the Church. The world would be converted if there were one flock and one sheperd. For his birthday I would get him a cake inscribed with: “EVIL GENIUS”
P.S. I was going to write with a nice proof on how Luther was responsible in one way or another for all of the bad things that Germany has done, but I don’t want about what his extreme nationalist, anti-Semitic, and anti-Catholic views meant to the German people of the last 3 centuries.
Alois,
Luther added the word “alone” to his bibles to Romans 3:28 so that it read “For we hold that a man is justified by faith alone apart from works of law”
When accused of changing the Word of God he responded by cursing and swearing and declaring on his own authority ( even though he knew full well the word doesn’t appear in the greek or latin manuscripts) that he will have it in his lutheran bible. Even though he knew it contradicted James 2:24, to which he responded by throwing out the book of James (along with 7 OT books and a few other NT books as well!)
I did say “almost certainly.”
Alois,
I don’t think I answered your question. Luther taught that one is saved by faith alone. Canon IX of the Sixth Session of the Council of Trent reads, “If anyone says, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise to mean, that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification…let him be anathema.”
“You are severed from Christ, you who wuld be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE.”
-Galatians 5:4-6 emphasis mine (I don’t know how to put things in italics on these posts.)
From the history I’ve read, the accurate history anyway, Luther was a very disturbed individual He grew up in a very physically abusive home, beaten by both his mother and father, made a really bad promise to a Saint if she spared his life in a riding accident and from what I can gather had serious mental issues. It looks like he had schizophrenic if not psychotic tendencies but he’s dead and we can’t do a complete assesment on him, so we will never know if he was truely mentally ill, but a lot of hisotrical scholars think he probably was based on his writings.
Ridiculing their founders is not Christian.
No one had ridiculed Luther (or any other Protestant) before your post.
Heck, I used to BE one!
Likewise. As was Jimmy.
You converts really are a gift to our Church. You’ve analysed objections, and nooks and crannies of the faith during the conversion process than many cradle Catholics do, and become increasingly skilled with defending Catholicism, and generous with sharing your findings. As I study more about a faith I grew up taking for granted, I often find that I am reading the works of a convert–it seems more often than not, actually, although I don’t really keep a tally.
Thanks!
Grudging admission on two good things Luther did:
First, his revolt prompted the revitalization of the Church under St. Pius V during the Counter-Reformation, the Council of Trent, and that great naval campaign the climax of which at Lepanto saved us from having to pray toward Mecca five times daily.
Second, he was a heck of a hymn writer. I really do like that song “A Mighty Fortress is Our God”. My problem is, should I sing it when the music director works it into the Mass? Or should I raise a righteous, papist stink?
I’ll sing it. If Luther is in Hell, it will make him grind his teeth more. If in Purgatory, it will bring him comfort. If in Heaven (finally) then joy.
Dr. Eric,
There were catholic translations of the NT from around the time of Luther that also translated Romans 3:28 with “alone,” so clear is the bible’s teaching.
Since Luther is reported to have a life long devotion to Mary, perhaps her prayers are why he may be in purgatory, then heaven; and not in hell. A mother’s prayers are very powerful.
pha,
You noted:
“No one had ridiculed Luther (or any other Protestant) before your post.”
Pre-posting ridicule:
1. If you’re trying to think of the perfect gift for Luther, might I suggest obtaining a partial or plenary indulgence for his soul? Wherever Luther is now, I’m sure he now knows the value of an indulgence.”
2. “Real high school student mistake: “Martin Luther nailed 95 feces to the door of the Wittenberg church.”
I guess he was bound to become famous, one way or another. :)”
3. “Well, pha, he did say he came up with the idea for sola fide “in cloaca” — on the toilet.”
4. “If you’re trying to think of the perfect gift for Luther, might I suggest obtaining a partial or plenary indulgence for his soul?
Great idea.”
5. “well, unless he is in purgatory, then an indulgence wouldn’t do him much good. ”
As per Somerville,(philosophy professor emeritus, Xavier University, Cincinnati, OH) http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/questmagazine/mayjune2000/exclusivism/ and http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/questmagazine/julyaugust2000/somerville/
“Religion can bring us to the verge, to the brink, but like Moses, who led his people to the Promised Land, but could not enter in, there is no place for religion in the world to come. Religion is our vehicle for the journey. Once arrived, it will be left at the door.”
If we accept the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (which the Catholics here should), then we’re obligated to acknowledge that the Luther(an) doctrine of justification is compatible with the Catholic understanding. (Cf. Jimmy’s “The Salvation Controversy” and my dissertation :-).
Don’t make the mistake which I did for to long: assuming that the theory of justification held by Joe Protestant today (and especially Joe Evangelical or Fundamentalist) is the same as Luther’s own theory.
“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE. -Galatians 5:4-6”
Dr. Eric – Look at that verse carefully. Faith working through love. Faith WORKING through love.
When Paul was speaking about the inadequacy of works, he was talking about works of the Jewish ceremonial law, not works of faith.
“What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?” James 2:14
for his sake, i hope he is in a place where an indulgence can help him, however unlikely that is. however, if he made it to purgatory after the cr-p he pulled, i feel better about my own chances. see, i was beginning to despair. 😉
The denominations that make up the WLF are far left and their leaders reject the Virgin Birth, deity of Christ, etc.; so don’t make the mistake of thinking that their opinions have anything to do with Confessional Lutherans or other believers.
Luther was a man trying to do what he thought was right in God’s eye. The Church was in a state of corruption around this time. Had the Church’s leadership been better before Luther none of this would have happened. Also, had the Church taken Luther’s complaints more seriously and enacted the Catholic Reformation sooner, most likely Luther would not have taken the further steps that eventually lead him to renounce the Church.
These types of events tend to get out of hand very quickly. The proximate cause was Luther, but the root cause had to do with corruption in the Church. The division of Christendom was a tragedy, but one that need not have happened had the Papacy been better.
Luther didn’t split the Church – Leo the Simoniac did, with Exurge Domini.
Luther worked on some doctrines in the tower that contained the toilet, not on the toilet itself.
Read the 95 theses.
How many does the Magesterium actually disagree with?
Melancton died believing he was a good Roman Catholic, and working earnestly for the re-unification of the Church.
These corrections brought to you by the Evangelical Catholic Church of the Augsberg Confession.
1) I know none of us can claim to really know the truth in this matter, but if Luther went the Purgatory->Heaven route, I think he’d be out of Purgatory after 460 years. There ARE a lot of Catholics still praying for him.
Remember, he wasn’t solely responsible for the Protestant reformation. It was a more complicated event. Catholics and Protestants seem to both believe in the unspoken sola: that Luther was Sola Responsible (Sola Rei? I’m just learning Latin..so excuse me if this is an incorrect way to translate it.)
2) I always hear the, “there are 21,000 – 33,000 different Protestant denominations” comments. I don’t think that’s accurate or fair. Yes, there is divergence in theology amongst the Protestants, but not 33,000 different theologies. Just because someone starts up a new church doesn’t mean that they’re adding to the number of denominations.
True, each Protestant gets to create their own set of dogmas (they each get to be their own Pope in a way)…but the views most normal healthy Protestants hold are very similar (more similar that what I see between the various Catholics on this blog at times) to each other’s views. It seems to me that God still works through them, even if they don’t allow Him to work as much as He could. Citing 33,000 different denominations in a demeaning manner implies otherwise (even if not explicitly saying it.)
Luther never threw out James, nor any of the rest of the NT canon, Dr. Eric.
Tim, There were Catholic priests who were teaching that by doing things, one could earn salvation, or atone for their own sins, completely.
That is not Catholic doctrine. Therefore, Dr. Luther attacked the false teaching in favor of the Church’s true teaching. Dominican friar Yohann Teztel was selling indulgences for the sake of an archbishop paying off a debt that he got for a bribe that he gave the pope, for an illegal sinecure, which the pope used to built St. Peter’s. Which is why that building is a particularly poor icon for Journey Home. Teztel was so off-base, that even in the midst of the Reformation controversies, -Catholics- had him jailed for blasphemy. Teztel was the televangelist of the 16th century.
Holy Roman Imperial politics got involved. As a result, Rome did not hear clearly that Luther was NOT teaching “by intellectual assent alone” and that Luther’s definition of Faith includes fealty and trust, hence good works resulting, but not earning. Luther would have also condemned the notion of “mere intellectual assent alone”
Indeed, there are perhaps a half-dozen Protestant theological systems.
There are no more 33k denominations than there are Roman Catholic denominations if we counted by every separate order, and sub-sect of order within the Roman Catholic Church.
There are perhaps 300 denominations, most caused by immigration to America – so that you’d have the German Lutheran and the Swedish Lutheran and the Norwegian Lutheran and the Danish Lutheran churches all in the same town of 1000 people, and by the defection to Deism in the early 20th century by most of the “main-line” Protestant organizational apparatus, causing church splits.
From what I understand, didn’t Luther thrown out all these books and later changed his mind over time? Kinda like St. Jerome?
No disrespect intended to Michelle, but I agree with some of the commenters here that this post is inappopriate for an apologetics blog. Of course Luther now knows the value of an indulgence– whatever it may be. But if the point of the apostolate here is to present a holistic defense of the Catholic faith, then I don’t see what good can come from mentioning this fact in such a whimsical manner. It’s only going to offend the people you’re trying to convince.
“These types of events tend to get out of hand very quickly. The proximate cause was Luther, but the root cause had to do with corruption in the Church. The division of Christendom was a tragedy, but one that need not have happened had the Papacy been better.”
Without a doubt. However, Luther rejected the very IDEA of the Papacy (the root of Church authority). That is why I can’t buy the argument that it was all just a big misunderstanding to which the Church overracted.
Were there bad moves on both sides? Sure. But keep in mind that Luther was as hip-deep in politics as anyone.
Read the article about him at Catholic Encyclopedia.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09438b.htm
I trust that all of the Luther apologists on this thread are just as solicitous to apologize for the actions of Abp. Lefebvre?
Tim’s comment prompted the following thoughts…
When it comes to theological controversies in history, there are two things that interest me:
1. What really happened; and
2. What motivated those involved.
The first seeks objectivity, the second seeks understanding of motives.
I think this should apply in any and every such controversy, whether we’re talking about Luther, Lefebvre, or anyone else.
Pre-posting ridicule:
1. If you’re trying to think of the perfect gift for Luther, might I suggest obtaining a partial or plenary indulgence for his soul? Wherever Luther is now, I’m sure he now knows the value of an indulgence.”
That isn’t ridicule. Suggesting prayer for someone else’s benefit is an act of LOVE, not ridicule. We should pray for Luther, as we pray for all our family members and others who’ve gone before us, and he probably would appreciate it.
2. “Real high school student mistake: “Martin Luther nailed 95 feces to the door of the Wittenberg church.”
I guess he was bound to become famous, one way or another. :)”
An ignorant student’s misunderstanding of the terms being used by the teacher is hardly a slight against Luther himself!
It is no insult to Sir Francis Drake, for example, that a student once wrote he “circumcised” the world instead of “circumnavigated.” High school students often make vocabulary mistakes. In the case of “feces,” that’s what the student really thought the teacher had been saying. “Feces” sounds a lot like “theses,” a word the student didn’t know.
3. “Well, pha, he did say he came up with the idea for sola fide “in cloaca” — on the toilet.”
Luther himself said he was “in cloaca”, or in the sewer, when he was inspired with his sola fide idea. It’s hardly a slight against him to believe his own words.
4 is the same as 1.
5. “well, unless he is in purgatory, then an indulgence wouldn’t do him much good. “
This is a simple statement of fact. If Luther is in Hell, which no one had suggested prior to your post, prayers will do him no good. If Luther is in Heaven, he no longer needs our help (though he’d still be pleased by our show of charity).
So, as I said, there was no ridicule directed at Luther before your post.
I think he’d be out of Purgatory after 460 years
Official Catholic teaching generally indicates that cleansing (purgation) or healing takes place after death, as an application of and participation in Christ’s redeeming life, but the Church is reticent to say whether it occurs in a particular place or takes any particular amount of time. The Church’s teaching is simply that such cleansing occurs and that it is finite (not eternal). The lack of specifics about whether this cleansing occurs in a particular place or takes any particular length of time has allowed authors like Dante, Lewis, and Kreeft to speculate, in their fiction, what forms it could take.
In other words, there’s no way to know whether any person would be “out of Purgatory after 460 years,” because we don’t even know whether “460 years” is a meaningful phrase in this context.
I would also add this:
To interpret any jocularity as a slight against Luther himself, when no jibes were made against Luther, is frankly un-Lutheran.
Luther was a very jocular man with a quite crude sense of humor. Few would find the “feces” and “in cloaca” jokes funnier than Luther himself.
In other words, Luther would not much care for a defender who thinks religion shouldn’t be funny.
Tim J,
The point was that the verses that best sum up Catholic theology were FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE (still can’t figure out how to italicize.)
The best way to cure a Lutheran of his “faith” is to make him read Luther. Try reading “Table Talk” and see what you think of this filthy heretic! He thinks us to be piles of dung…covered up with graces, so as to be hidden from the eyes of our Lord in Heaven. Shameful stuff and this man is so revered by heretics everywhere. Who ever heard of a Catholic surmising Luther might possibly be in purgatory, let alone in Heaven? God, the Holy Ghost and our Lord Jesus Christ are the the one’s to decide! Does anyone think Luther repented of his heresy on his death bed or even went back to confession. I cannot imagine him dying a Holy death. Pray for Luther if you want to, but why bother? There are actually HOLY sols in purgatory that your prayers would be more likely to benefit.
Making fun of Luther may be uncharitable, and perhaps some Catholics enjoy it a little too much. Luther is still a heretic and I would be surprised if he is sitting anywhere other than atop the red hot poker of Satan himself!
Jay, there’s no evidence that Luther ever made the “snow-covered dunghill” analogy, even though some (Catholics and Protestants) “wish” that he would have.
As for me, I’ll continue to pray for *all* souls, even heretics, as I hope for their salvation as well.