A metal scarce planet, a metal-rich one, and a dictator. Dom Bettinelli and Jimmy Akin discuss this 4th Doctor and Romana story, especially the humor and clever wordplay, the problematic creature design, and economic themes.
How do you keep a Klingon down on the farm? Dom Bettinelli, Jimmy Akin, and Fr. Jason Tyler discuss this story of a disgraced Klingon captain who gets honor back with the help of Mariner and a Boimler going through his Klingon phase.
Do our souls leave time when we die and go to be with God in heaven? God is outside of time, right? So do we go outside of time, too?
And—if we are outside of time—are we already saints in heaven, right now? Could you even ask yourself for your intercession?
And what about angels? Are they timeless, too?
Prepare for some surprises!
Two Types of Eternity
A key word in our discussion is eternal, and this word has two meanings.
First, something can be eternal if it lasts through all time. You can picture it as a ray that starts at a particular moment and then proceeds forward through all future moments—like an arrow pointing into the future. There are other ways you could imagine this arrow. It might point backward into the past, or it might point both forward and backward.
But the key thing is that it represents an endless stretch of time, one moment after another, going on infinitely. When you have an unending sequence of time like that, people sometimes say it is eternal. It goes on for eternity. They also sometimes say that it is everlasting.
But there is an even greater type of eternity, which is not being part of time at all.
You could picture this as a single point next to a line or arrow that represents time. Each point on the line is a different moment in time, but there’s also a point that is not part of the line, that is by itself. This moment is also said to be eternal because it is not part of time. It’s non-temporal or atemporal.
We’ll call this Type 1 eternity because it’s the greatest form of eternity—not being part of time at all. And we’ll call the other Type 2 eternity because it’s a lesser form—just an endless stretch of time. Both Type 1 and Type 2 eternity will play a role in our discussion.
God’s Eternity
In the early Church there was a philosopher and martyr named Boethius (c. 480-524). He denounced corruption among political officials in the Ostrogothic Kingdom, which got him locked up, tortured, and eventually martyred.
While he was in jail, he wrote a book called The Consolation of Philosophy, which gave Christian circles the classic definition of eternity as it applies to God. Boethius wrote:
Eternity is a simultaneously total and perfect possession of an interminable life (Consolation of Philosophy 5:6).
One of the things you’ll note about this definition is that it involves the possession of an interminable or endless life. That sounds like Type 2 eternity, which involves an endless stretch of time or life.
But there’s something else in Boethius’ definition. He says eternity is not just the possession of limitless life, it’s the simultaneous possession of it. In other words, there is no succession from one moment to another. It’s all happening at once. It’s simultaneous.
Another translation of Boethius puts it this way:
Eternity is the possession of endless life whole and perfect at a single moment (Consolation of Philosophy 5:6).
This makes it clear that we’re not talking about Type 2 eternity, which is like a line. Instead, we’re talking about Type 1 eternity, which is like a point.
God thus lives in an “eternal now,” where time does not pass from moment to moment. If you think about that eternal now as a point, it is not on the line of time at all.
But our mental pictures can be a little misleading. If you imagine a point sitting next to a line, the point is still closer to one part of the line than others. You might think that the part of the line that is closest to the point is the present, while those that are father away are the past and the future.
This is not how it works for God. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy (CCC 600).
So the past, the present, and the future are all equally real—and equally close—to God. You might think about this as God existing at his single point of the eternal now, with time bending around that point like a circle, so that past, present, and future are all equally close to him.
Of course, the future is infinite, and we can’t really draw an infinite circle around a point, but it’s a helpful image. In fact, Boethius pictured time as a circle that had God and his eternity as its center (Consolation of Philosophy 4:6).
In any event, Boethius understood God’s eternity to be Type 1—as a point that’s not on the line of time.
Church Teaching on God’s Eternity
It’s not just Boethius who held this; it’s also the Church. Boethius’s definition of eternity became the standard one in Christian circles. Therefore, this was what it meant when in 1215 the Fourth Lateran Council stated that
We firmly believe and confess without reservation that there is only one true God, eternal, infinite, and unchangeable (DS 800, CCC 202).
So—reading the council in terms of what the word meant at the time—it confessed that God had Type 1 eternity. He’s fundamentally outside of time.
And that’s the understanding of the Church today. In 1985, Pope John Paul II taught:
Because [God] cannot not be, he cannot have beginning or end nor a succession of moments in the only and infinite act of his existence.
Right reason and revelation wonderfully converge on this point.
Being God, absolute fullness of being (ipsum esse subsistens), his eternity “inscribed in the terminology of being” must be understood as the “indivisible, perfect, and simultaneous possession of an unending life,” and therefore as the attribute of being absolutely “beyond time” (General Audience, Sept. 4, 1985).
So “his eternity . . . must be understood as . . . being absolutely ‘beyond time.’”
But what about our eternity?
An Argument for Leaving Time
We’re obviously inside of time now, but do we leave time when we go to be with God?
Some people think that we do. This idea seems to be based on reasoning something like this:
God is outside of time.
God is in heaven.
When we die, we go into heaven.
Therefore, when we die, we go outside of time.
But we need to be careful here, because that’s not a formally valid argument. Consider this parallel:
Bob is outside of Scranton.
Bob is in agony.
When I stub my toe, I go into agony.
Therefore, when I stub my toe, I go outside of Scranton.
That doesn’t follow at all. I might stub my toe and go into agony even though I am located in Scranton. So there’s something wrong with this argument. It involves a logical fallacy. The fallacy involves a confusion between Scranton—which is a location—and agony—which is a state of being.
This is also important because being inside or outside of time involves a location, but being in heaven involves a state of being. We may picture heaven as if it is a location—classically, a location up in the clouds. But that’s not really what it is.
Instead, heaven is a state of spiritual union with God. Thus, John Paul II taught:
In the context of revelation, we know that the “heaven” or “happiness” in which we will find ourselves is neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but a living, personal relationship with the Holy Trinity (General Audience, July 21, 1999).
Similarly, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity—this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels, and all the blessed—is called “heaven.” Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness (CCC 1024).
So heaven is “a living, personal relationship with the Holy Trinity” and “the state of supreme, definitive happiness.”
This means that you can be in heaven whether or not you are inside or outside of time. God is outside of time, but he is supremely happy and so is “in” heaven, and when we are in full spiritual union with God, we are “in” heaven even though we remain in time.
That’s why in the book Revelation, John says:
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. . . .
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God” (Revelation 21:1-3).
So Revelation depicts mankind as living on the new Earth, the city of New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven to mankind, and we’re told that “the dwelling place of God is with man.” But God doesn’t literally dwell in a physical location, yet he will be in full spiritual union with people as they live on the new Earth.
We Don’t Leave Time
This means that we don’t leave time when we enter full spiritual union with God, and this is something that the Church has been explicit about.
God may have Type 1 eternity, or true timelessness, but we don’t. We have Type 2 eternity or everlastingness. We come into being at a certain point in time, but because we are ultimately immortal, we have no end. Because of death, we may not be in our bodies for a period—of time—but eventually we will be reunited with them and experience the eternal order.
Both Scripture and standard Catholic teaching depict us as undergoing a sequence of states across our existence. First, we come into existence. Then, we live our lives. Then, we die. Then, we are judged at the particular judgment. Then, we are purified in purgatory if we need to be. Then, when our purification is finished, we have the unalloyed happiness of heaven. Then, we are reunited with our bodies. Then, we experience the general judgment, where we are judged in body and soul. Then, we experience the eternal order.
That’s a definite sequence—much of which happens after death, implying a sequentiality that occurs after our deaths. For there to be a sequence, there must be something separating the elements of the sequence–something that keeps them from happening all at once. That means that there is either time or something analogous to time in the afterlife.
That doesn’t mean it works exactly the same way that time works here on Earth. Various Medieval philosophers like St. Albert the Great and St. Thomas Aquinas speculated that we might experience time differently than the way we experience it now. And they referred to this altered mode of existence as aevum or aeveternity, but it was still a form of time.
More recently, physicists have speculated that there may be more than one dimension of time. We’re used to experiencing one dimension of time that stretches into the future, but we’re also used to experiencing three physical dimensions—height, width, and length—so there is no conceptual reason why there can’t be more than one dimension of time. Maybe there are two or three or more—we just don’t experience them in this life.
But there has to be something separating the different stages of our journey in the afterlife, and so there has to be some form of time. It may be time exactly the way we experience it here; it may be an alternate experience like the medieval idea of aeviternity, or it may be even more complex, as with modern physics. But it has to exist.
Church Teaching on Our Timeliness
What does the Church’s Magisterium have to say on the subject? John Paul II taught:
Eternity [in the sense of being “beyond time”] is here the element which essentially distinguishes God from the world. While the latter is subject to change and passes away, God remains beyond the passing of the world. He is necessary and immutable (General Audience, Sept. 4, 1985).
He also taught that
[God] is Eternity, as the preceding catechesis explained, while all that is created is contingent and subject to time (General Audience, Sept. 11, 1985).
So “all that is created is . . . subject to time.” That means that our souls are subject to time. And this will be the case even after our deaths, since our souls do not cease to be created beings.
The same is true of angels. They are also created beings, and so they also are subject to time—answering that question for us.
The International Theological Commission Agrees
In 1992, the International Theological Commission (ITC) issued a document that bears on our subject in a more explicit way.
The ITC is an advisory body headed by the prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, who at the time was Joseph Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict). According to its bylaws, when the head of the ITC authorizes the publication of one of its documents, it signifies that the Magisterium does not have any difficulty with its teaching.
In this case, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger authorized the publication of a document which stated:
[S]ome theologians . . . seek a solution in a so-called atemporalism: They say that after death time can in no way exist and hold that the deaths of people are successive (viewed from the perspective of this world); whereas the resurrection of those people in the life after death, in which there would be no temporal distinctions, is (they think) simultaneous.
But this attempted atemporalism, according to which successive individual deaths would coincide with a simultaneous collective resurrection, implies recourse to a philosophy of time quite foreign to biblical thought.
The New Testament’s way of speaking about the souls of the martyrs does not seem to remove them either from all reality of succession or from all perception of succession (cf. Rev 6:9-11).
Similarly, if time should have no meaning after death, not even in some way merely analogous with its terrestrial meaning, it would be difficult to understand why Paul used formulas referring to the future (anastesontai)in speaking about their resurrection, when responding to the Thessalonians who were asking about the fate of the dead (cf. 1 Thess 4:13-18).
Moreover, a radical denial of any meaning for time in those resurrections, deemed both simultaneous and taking place in the moment of death, does not seem to take sufficiently into account the truly corporeal nature of the resurrection; for a true body cannot be said to exist devoid of all notion of temporality.
Even the souls of the blessed, since they are in communion with the Christ who has been raised in a bodily way, cannot be thought of without any connection with time (Some Current Questions on Eschatology, “The Christian Hope of the Resurrection,” 2.2].
By their nature, the documents of the ITC express the common understanding of Catholic theology in accord with the teaching of the Magisterium, and Cardinal Ratzinger’s authorization of this document signals that the common understanding in Catholic theology is that some form of time “even in some way merely analogous to its terrestrial meaning” continues to apply to us in the afterlife, and that the Magisterium has no difficulty with this.
Joseph Ratzinger said the same in his own writings, such as his book Eschatology, when he was still a theology professor.
Catholic theology thus does not hold that we leave time upon our deaths. In fact, it would be difficult to hold that we do so, given the reasons that the ITC cites.
So while we do indeed have eternal souls, and while God is eternal in the sense of being completely beyond time, the Church does not understand our souls to be eternal or atemporal in the way that God is.
God has Type 1 eternity, and we have Type 2.
Can You Ask for Your Own Intercession?
This gives us a framework for answering our remaining questions, like “Are you currently a saint in heaven?”
Well, your future self may be a saint, but your future is not now. Therefore, on the face of it, you would not be a saint in heaven now.
However, strictly speaking, we don’t know how time works in the afterlife. We know it exists, but we don’t know how it works. It’s possible it might involve more than one temporal dimension, or it might incorporate time travel—which is something Einstein’s field equations say is theoretically possible.
If something like time travel happens in heaven then technically, yes, you could be in heaven “now.” I wouldn’t count on that, though, because the idea of time travel in heaven is totally speculative, and we have no evidence supporting it.
But can you ask your saintly self to pray to God for you?
Here comes a twist, but the answer is yes. And it doesn’t matter whether you are in heaven “now” or not.
In fact, people ask their future selves to pray for them all the time—even in this life. For example, you could leave your future self a note that says, “Don’t forget to pray tonight!” Or you might set an alarm or some other kind of reminder to prompt your future self to pray.
There is thus no reason why you can’t ask your future sainted self to pray for you. All the future, sainted version of you has to do is remember to pray, and I’m pretty sure that in heaven we will have perfect memories.
Also, theologians like Aquinas commonly hold that the way saints know about our prayers is that God tells them—he tells them anything they would want to know about, including our prayer requests. So if Saint You forgets, God can remind you.
And God can respond to your future prayers and help you out right now! Remember: God is outside of time, and the past, present, and future are all equally real to him. So suppose that you’ll be a saint in heaven 100 years from now. That future version of you prays to God and asks him to help you right now—in our present. Well, our present is just as real to God as our future, so God can take your future prayer and apply it to you right now.
In fact, saints like St. Padre Pio have talked about the principle behind this, and I discussed it in Episode 208 of my podcast Jimmy Akin’s Mysterious World. You can go to Mysterious.fm/208 if you’d like to learn more.
* * *
If you like this content, you can help me out by liking, commenting, writing a review, sharing the podcast, and subscribing
If you’re watching on YouTube, be sure and hit the bell notification so that you always get notified when I have a new video
The Virgin Mary has reportedly been appearing to 6 young people in Medjugorgje in Bosnia-Herzegovina since 1981. Jimmy Akin and Dom Bettinelli begin a 3-part look at what is happening, the Vatican’s long-awaited decision on the phenomena, and whether the apparitions are genuinely supernatural.
https://youtu.be/piC9hzwg8MY
Help us continue to offer Jimmy Akin’s Mysterious World. Won’t you make a pledge at SQPN.com/give today?
You can also leave a voice message on the Mysterious Feedback Line at (619) 738-4515
This Episode is Brought to You By: Jimmy Akin’s Mysterious World is brought to you in part through the generous support of Deliver Contacts, offering honest pricing and reliable service for all your contact lens needs. See the difference at delivercontacts.com.
Rosary Army. Featuring award-winning Catholic podcasts, Rosary resources, videos, and the School of Mary online community, prayer, and learning platform. Learn how to make them, pray them, and give them away while growing in your faith at RosaryArmy.com and SchoolOfMary.com
The Grady Group, a Catholic company bringing financial clarity to their clients across the United States. Using safe money options to produce reasonable rates of return for their clients. Learn more by visiting GradyGroupInc.com.
The debut novel Pilgrims by M.R. Leonard. Alien invasion, the Catholic Church, and a failed Latin teacher, Pilgrims is inspired by Augustine’s Confessions and tells the story of a washed-up Latin teacher who gets thrust into the center of humanity’s first contact with extraterrestrials who land at the Vatican and claim to be Catholic. Mysterious World fans who enjoy compelling science fiction from a Catholic point of view can find Pilgrims wherever books are sold and at MRLeonardauthor.com. And for those who enjoy audiobooks, Pilgrims is also available as a full multicast production.
Want to Sponsor A Show?
Support StarQuest’s mission to explore the intersection of faith and pop culture by becoming a named sponsor of the show of your choice on the StarQuest network. Click to get started or find out more.
The 8th Doctor in dystopia. Dom Bettinelli and Jimmy Akin discuss this story of an Orwellian society, memory manipulation, state-enforced happiness, manipulated rebellion, and a twist that could only occur in an audio story.
Mariner relationship woes and Boimler undercover. Dom Bettinelli, Jimmy Akin, and Fr. Jason Tyler discuss the latest Lower Decks, including Boimler’s development, passive-aggressive breakups, and a possible interdimensional rift season arc.
Some Christians appear to believe that the Bible contains nothing but exact quotations of the people it describes. In other words, everything you see between quotation marks in the Bible is exactly what the person said. There’s not one word of difference.
It’s easy for modern Christians to think this since we live in a world of audio and video recorders and stenographers and transcriptionists. Exact quotations come easy to us.
However, the attitude of ancient audiences was different. They lived before any recording devices had been invented, few people were literate, and of those who were literate, only a very few were trained in stenography and capable of taking down exactly what someone said in real time.
As a result, they did not expect exact quotations the way that we do. Instead, they expected texts to convey the gist or basic meaning of what someone said, but not the exact words.
They also recognized that authors would, at times, need to reconstruct the dialogue or conversations that people had.
No Recording Devices
Think about it: Without recorders and transcribers of such conversations, how would anybody remember exactly what had been said on a particular occasion? They might remember the gist of what was said, but likely not the exact words—especially after a long space of time.
Of course, in divinely inspired texts like the books of the Bible, God could reveal the exact words that had been used on a particular occasion. That’s possible. But it’s not what the ancient audience was expecting. They were used to reading books of history that used the convention of reconstructed dialogue, and so that’s what they would have assumed books of Scripture also contained—unless the text said otherwise.
A key principle of good biblical exegesis is reading the text the way the ancient audience would have, and so we also should understand the Bible as using reconstructed dialogue. We should not introduce the added assumption—not shared by the original audience—that God miraculously revealed what was said by minor players in the narrative, like the exact words used by every person who approached Jesus for a miracle.
Nobody would have written down the exact words of a healing request at the time, but the gist would have been remembered (e.g., a blind man asked Jesus for his sight back), and so we would expect the exact words to be reconstructed.
This much we can establish based on a knowledge of how ancient literature worked, but can we find evidence supporting this view in the text itself?
We can! And one way we can do this is by comparing different accounts of the same incident.
Synoptic Parallels
Let’s compare Mark’s and Matthew’s account of what the demons said to Jesus in the case of the Gerasene/Gadarene demoniacs.
Mark 5 presents us with Jesus exorcizing a single demoniac, and we read of the following exchange taking place between Jesus and the demons.
And pay particular attention to the words of the demons, because we’re going to compare them.
“What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.”
For he had said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”
He replied, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”
And he begged him eagerly not to send them out of the country. Now a great herd of swine was feeding there on the hillside; and they begged him, “Send us to the swine, let us enter them” (Mark 5:7-12).
Now here’s the account of the same event from Matthew 8, where Matthew records that there were two demoniacs that Jesus exorcized:
“What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?”
Now a herd of many swine was feeding at some distance from them.
And the demons begged him, “If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of swine” (Matt. 8:29-31).
As you can see, Matthew omits the reference to “Legion,” but the gist is the same in both accounts—the demons ask what Jesus has to do with them, they’re concerned about being tormented, and they ask to go into the herd of pigs.
But the exact words used are different. In Mark the demons say, “What have you to do with me” (singular), because Mark is only mentioning one demoniac, while Matthew has “What have you to do with us” (plural), because Matthew mentions the second demoniac.
In Mark the demons identify Jesus as “Jesus, Son of the Most High God,” while in Matthew they just identify him as “Son of God.”
In Mark the demons make a request about torment—“I adjure you by God, do not torment me”—while in Matthew they ask a question—“Have you come here to torment us before the time?”
Finally, concerning the pigs, Mark’s demons make a simple request—“Send us to the swine, let us enter them”—while in Matthew they make a conditional request—“If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of swine.”
We thus see how the biblical authors Mark and Matthew both wanted to convey the gist of what happened on this occasion, but they don’t feel bound to use the same exact words of dialogue. There is dialogue reconstruction—in the form of paraphrase—happening in these texts.
A More Striking Example
An even more striking example of reconstructed dialogue occurs in Luke’s account of the day of Pentecost in Acts.
After the Holy Spirit descends on the disciples and they begin speaking in tongues, we read:
Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
And they were amazed and wondered, saying,
“Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?
“And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language?
“Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God” (Acts 2:5-11).
Note carefully what Luke says: “they were amazed and wondered, saying.” This tells us that the words that follow represent what the crowd—a group of people—said.
Now—unless they’re chanting in unison—when a group of people speak, each person says something different. In real life, they would hold a conversation about the amazing event unfolding before them.
But instead of recording a conversation between individual speakers, Luke represents the crowd as if it is speaking in unison: “How is it that we hear, each of us in his native language? . . . We hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.”
Interposed between these is a long list of places that the Jews came from, and there is no way in real life that a group of people speaking in unison—without a script—would name the same places in the same order.
What’s more, the list isn’t random. This may not be obvious to modern readers, who aren’t that familiar with ancient place names, but the list mentions places of Jewish settlement moving from east to west. It starts in the far east with Parthia (in modern Iran) and works its way westward through the Holy Land and North Africa before moving up to the capital of the empire—Rome—with Cretans (an island people) and Arabs (a nomadic people) thrown in at the end.
There is no way a crowd would spontaneously come up with this list. If they wanted to speak in unison, they’d need to first decide on the places to name and then figure out the sequence in which to name them.
A Greek Chorus
The way that Luke presents the crowd bursting into a common speech will be familiar to readers of ancient literature. What Luke depicts the crowd doing is functioning as a Greek chorus.
Greek choruses were made up of performers in ancient Greek plays. Choruses consisted of 12 to 50 actors, and they sang, danced, and spoke lines in unison. Their purpose was to represent the common people who were witnessing the events of the play, and they provided commentary on them.
They would say things that the main characters couldn’t (e.g., the chorus might comment on the main character’s faults or hidden fears and motives), they would comment in ways that would bring out the significance of events in the story, and they would underscore elements of the plot to make it easier for the audience to follow.
Here’s an example of a chorus speaking in Sophocles’s play Antigone—about the daughter of Oedipus the king. At this point in the play, Antigone has been sentenced to be buried alive in a tomb by the tyrant King Creon, and she has just compared her fate to a somewhat similar fate experienced by Niobe, the daughter of King Tantalus.
Yet [Niobe] was a goddess, you know, and born of gods;
we are mortals, and of mortal race.
But ’tis great renown for a woman [you, Antigone] who has perished that she should have shared the doom of the godlike, in her life, and afterward in death.
You see how the chorus speaks in unison—“We are mortals, and of mortal race.” This kind of speaking in unison would not happen in real life unless people were reading from a script, which is exactly what happened in ancient Greek plays. The actors had a script to direct their speech.
The crowd on Pentecost had no script to read from, but Luke knows that his readers will have seen plays and be familiar with the literary device of a chorus, so he reconstructs dialogue-in-unison to reflect the thoughts and nature of the crowd and has them provide commentary on the miracle they have just witnessed.
No doubt, individual people in the crowd on Pentecost did say things like, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?”, “How is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language?”, and “We hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” They probably didn’t use those exact words, but they convey the gist of what people in the crowd said.
Luke then fuses these remarks with a list of the places that the people came from to provide an overall commentary that conveyed to his readers a sense of the multiple languages represented in the miracle and the crowd’s reaction to it.
We thus find a real event being presented with a particularly clear case of reconstructed dialogue.
The Words of Jesus
A question that modern readers will want to ask is what all this says about the words of Jesus.
We can say basically two things: First, that the authors of the Gospels were concerned with accurately presenting the gist of Jesus’ teachings and interactions, and second, that they were at liberty to paraphrase and reconstruct dialogue.
This means that we would expect more exact representations of Jesus’ words in certain types of passages. Teachings were the most important things Jesus said (as opposed, for example, to where the group would be having dinner or spending the night), so they should most closely reflect his actual words.
Short Sayings
Also, shorter statements are easier to remember than longer ones, so teachings given in shorter form should convey more of the actual words.
Indeed, we have evidence that Jesus himself took these things into account, and many of his teachings are framed in short, vivid, easy-to-remember forms. An example is this statement:
The last will be first, and the first last (Matt. 20:16).
This saying uses a literary device known as a chiasm or chiasmus (in Greek chiasma means “crossing”). Chiasms involve a sequence of elements that reverse in order. If we label the word “last” as A and the word “first” as B, this chiasmus has an A B | B A structure.
Such structures make sayings easier to remember, and it appears Jesus used them to make his teachings more memorable.
Parables
Another literary device he used to do this was the parable. Jesus’ parables are short, memorable stories that teach spiritual lessons, and humans are wired for stories, so we remember the gist of them easily.
Some of Jesus’ longer discourses—like the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 5-7)—are essentially collections of short, easily memorable sayings, and if you study the Sermon on the Mount, you can see that it’s organized around different collections of sayings that begin the same way (e.g., “Blessed are the X”, “You have heard X, but I say Y”, “When you do X, do not do Y”).
There is also the fact that—as a teacher—Jesus would have given the same teachings multiple times, to many different audiences, so his disciples would have heard his teachings many times and—as his disciples (i.e., students)—they would have made efforts to memorize them so they could preach them to others.
Conversational Dialogue
On the other hand, not everything Jesus said would have been remembered in this way. Things he said only once—like when he was having a conversation with someone—would not be expected to be as close to the original wording, so we would expect more reconstruction in one-off statements.
The same would be true of minor characters—people other than Jesus. Numerous people approached him for miracles of healing or exorcism during his ministry, and their exact words in making the request would not have been memorized. Consequently, we would expect the Evangelists to reconstruct what such people said, basing it on the kind of thing someone with a particular problem would say to Jesus in making a respectful request for relief.
So expect more reconstruction in conversational dialogue.
Long, One-Time Speeches?
Similarly, things that Jesus said that went on for a long time—very lengthy statements, especially those made only once—would be harder to memorize, and we would expect more paraphrase and reconstruction.
For example, Jesus gives some long speeches in the Gospel of John. One of them runs for five chapters (John 13-17)! And it was apparently given only once, on Holy Thursday. Even though John was an eyewitness (John 21:24), and even though he had supernatural assistance in remembering what Jesus said (John 14:26), the ancient audience would not have expected John to reproduce a word-for-word transcript of a lengthy speech he heard Jesus give only once.
Instead, they would expect the Holy Spirit to help John remember the gist of what was said, and then John would employ the normal reconstruction and paraphrase that was expected in ancient literature.
What we see is thus that the four Evangelists felt the need to accurately preserve the substance of what Jesus said, but not always the exact wording—as can be seen by comparing the Gospel accounts of the same sayings and noting the variation in the exact words used.
No Quotation Marks
Part of the problem modern readers have with the idea that quotations in the Bible may not be exact is because they are encased in quotation marks. When Jesus says something, modern Bibles put quotation marks around it.
However, the original Greek manuscripts of the New Testament (and the Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament) do not contain quotation marks. They are a later invention.
The ancestors of quotation marks were invented in the 2nd century B.C., but they had a different function back then. At the Library of Alexandria, they were used to signal erroneous or disputed portions of text.
Once the Christian age began, authors began using them to signal quotations, but they were a particular type of quotation—one that came from the Bible. Biblical passages would get quotation marks, regardless of whether someone was speaking or not. Thus when the author of Genesis writes “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth,” it would get quotation marks, and so would Jesus’ statement “The last will be first, and the first last.”
Later, quotation marks came to be used for quotations of the words another person used in saying something, which is their modern function. And they usually indicated exact quotations—the exact words someone said, with no paraphrase or reconstruction.
This is the connotation that they have today, and their use in modern editions of the Bible leads the reader to suppose that they are being given an exact quotation.
But the quotation marks aren’t in the originals. They are added by modern translation committees. There are even disputes—in some cases—about where a particular quotation begins and ends, because there aren’t any marks in the Greek telling you where it ends and where the author’s voice picks up again.
For example, a famous instance occurs in Galatians 2. It’s clear that in Galatians 2:14 Paul begins quoting something he once said to St. Peter, but it isn’t clear where the historic quotation ends and where Paul shifts back to giving his current thoughts rather than what he said to Peter in the past.
Direct and Indirect Discourse
The difference in how ancient writers quoted people and how modern, English-speaking ones do is illustrated by the difference between what are known as direct and indirect discourse.
In direct discourse, a modern English-language writer will be giving you what he believes were the exact words a person used—no paraphrasing allowed—as in this statement:
John said, “I am hungry”
By contrast, indirect discourse doesn’t present you with a quotation, and so quotation marks are not used, as in the statement:
John said that he is hungry.
The way English writing works, you know that in the first statement the author is giving you what he thinks is an exact quotation of what John said, while in the second statement he is giving you a summary of what John said, but not necessarily his exact words (e.g., John might have literally said, “I’m famished!” or “I’m peckish” or “I haven’t eaten today,” but you could summarize all of those with “John said that he is hungry”).
Greek has equivalents of direct and indirect discourse, but they don’t work exactly the same way the English versions do. In particular, since ancient authors generally weren’t expected to give you exact quotations, this wasn’t normally part of what Greek direct discourse implied.
But when you add quotation marks to signal direct discourse in English, it tells the reader that what they have before them is supposed to be an exact quotation. This can mask the greater flexibility ancient authors had in presenting quotations. So when you read the statement:
And Jesus said to the centurion, “Go, as you have believed it will be done for you.”
It may actually mean something more like:
And Jesus said to the centurion that he should go and that, as he had believed, it would be done for him.
In other words, quotation marks work differently in the Bible than they do in things we write.
When you see quotation marks in the Bible, they only guarantee that the gist of what was said is accurate—not that these were the exact words.
This is not to say that a quotation doesn’t preserve the exact words of Jesus. It may or may not, but it will accurately preserve the gist of what he said.
Dei Verbum
So what can we say in light of all this? One of the things that the Second Vatican Council taught was the following:
Since, therefore, all that the inspired authors, or sacred writers, affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture, firmly, faithfully and without error, teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the sacred Scriptures (Dei Verbum 11).
In other words, everything that the authors of the Bible intended to assert, properly speaking, is also asserted by the Holy Spirit and is thus true.
The authors of the Bible intended to assert the substance of Jesus’ actions and teachings. They didn’t intend to assert the exact words that he and others always used, because that kind of assertion wasn’t a standard part of ancient literature. However, they did intend to assert the gist—the substance—of what he said and did.
Therefore, that substance is guaranteed by the Holy Spirit to be transmitted by the Gospels “firmly, faithfully, and without error.”
* * *
If you like this content, you can help me out by liking, commenting, writing a review, sharing the podcast, and subscribing
If you’re watching on YouTube, be sure and hit the bell notification so that you always get notified when I have a new video
We’re back with more Halloween-related weird questions as Cy Kellett of Catholic Answers Live asks Jimmy Akin about topics like baptizing Frankenstein’s monster, poltergeist phenomena, children seeing ghosts, soul-sucking pumpkins, and more!
https://youtu.be/HecYEFc1QLw
Help us continue to offer Jimmy Akin’s Mysterious World. Won’t you make a pledge at SQPN.com/give today?
You can also leave a voice message on the Mysterious Feedback Line at (619) 738-4515
This Episode is Brought to You By: Jimmy Akin’s Mysterious World is brought to you in part through the generous support of Deliver Contacts, offering honest pricing and reliable service for all your contact lens needs. See the difference at delivercontacts.com.
Rosary Army. Featuring award-winning Catholic podcasts, Rosary resources, videos, and the School of Mary online community, prayer, and learning platform. Learn how to make them, pray them, and give them away while growing in your faith at RosaryArmy.com and SchoolOfMary.com
The Grady Group, a Catholic company bringing financial clarity to their clients across the United States. Using safe money options to produce reasonable rates of return for their clients. Learn more by visiting GradyGroupInc.com.
The debut novel Pilgrims by M.R. Leonard. Alien invasion, the Catholic Church, and a failed Latin teacher, Pilgrims is inspired by Augustine’s Confessions and tells the story of a washed-up Latin teacher who gets thrust into the center of humanity’s first contact with extraterrestrials who land at the Vatican and claim to be Catholic. Mysterious World fans who enjoy compelling science fiction from a Catholic point of view can find Pilgrims wherever books are sold and at MRLeonardauthor.com. And for those who enjoy audiobooks, Pilgrims is also available as a full multicast production.
Want to Sponsor A Show?
Support StarQuest’s mission to explore the intersection of faith and pop culture by becoming a named sponsor of the show of your choice on the StarQuest network. Click to get started or find out more.