I think this is awesome. I’m writing my thesis over Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy (what still divides us and what doesn’t). This books will, I hope, help me with that thesis.
We are having a series about the Early Church Fathers in our Church, taught by our Priest. Is there a reliable Catholic source online to view some of the letters from the Church Fathers. I see that the Original Catholic Encyclopedia has great information about the Fathers but I’m not seeing the actual text (for example, we just talked about Clement’s letter). I looked at the New Advent site but Father was concerned because it was compiled by an individual, there was a note about editing being done, and for example, the false letters were included under Clement. Anyway, it would be great to have a source our parishioners could go to if they want to read the letters online.
catholicmom2010: Four Witnesses by Rod Bennett is a great book with extensive quotes from 4 of the early fathers, Clement being one of them. Not sure about an online source though.
This pass over on the images is really cool.
I regret to inform you that the icon you tag as “Pope St. Gregory the Great” is, in actual fact, of Saint Gregory Palamas — a strange figure to feature on the cover of a book of Roman Catholic apologetics!
Dan: Are you sure? We tried it with Firefox here at the office, and it worked just fine. What should happen is this: When you mouse over the face of one of the fathers a box should appear with that father’s name. Then when you click on it it will open a new window with that father’s biography. Maybe it will help if you try again and move the mouse more slowly and make sure it goes right over the faces.
I’ve fixed the image so that St. Gregory Palamas is now correctly identified.
Unfortunately, it is too late (at this point) to change the book cover as the book is already in print. Perhaps a future edition can address this.
He is ironic on this cover, though the Original Catholic Encyclopedia notes: “At first he opposed the Latins, but eventually he wrote in defense of reunion, of the Filioque, and the papal primacy.”
Also, he is apparently venerated as a saint in some Eastern Catholic churches (e.g., Melkite ones).
As mentioned before, the choice of the individuals for the cover was made by the artist who was using primarily aesthetic criteria.
It looks as though the ‘aesthetic criteria’ used by the artist was ‘whatever looks like it belongs to the Orthodox Church’.
To my eyes it appears that the artist cut and paste various Orthodox icons into one page then just inserted a custom mandorla around each Saint’s head. Notice that the writing on the scrolls are all in different languages and that the icons are written in different styles.
Is this what happened? If so, why did you want to make the book look Orthodox?
Finally Jim, icons are not meant to be asthetic.
What is this referring to?:
“At first he opposed the Latins, but eventually he wrote in defense of reunion, of the Filioque, and the papal primacy”
I am unaware of what the encyclopedia is talking about. Could you please provide some examples?
Thanks.
Jimmy,
What do you know about a new book called ‘The Holy Bible In It’s Origianl Order’. It’s getting a fair amount of play in Protestant circles but is going more mainstream with full page ads in a number of conservative poliitcal magazines?
The claim is that church fathers changed the original 1st century order of the Bible for “mysterious” editing reasons. And that the restored Bible conforms to the order recognized by most scholars.
Any insight you have would be appreciated.
Doug,
I have limited information about the book. It was produced by a former affiliate of the Worldwide Church of God (Herbert Armonstrong’s group) which was sufficiently heretical to cease being Christian (it has since been reformed but not all of its former associates have gone along with the theological changes).
As to putting the Bible in its “original order,” there have been similar efforts in the past (e.g., putting the passages of the Bible in the chronological order of the events they describe). These are interesting but of little consequence.
The exact order in which the books of the Bible were written is ultimately unknowable. We simply do not have enough information to pin down the exact order.
Jews and Christians have, over the ages, used a variety of ordering schemes based on varying criteria which are obvious (e.g., St. Paul’s general epistles are arranged from longest to shortest, followed by his pastoral epistles, arranged the same way).
The precise arrangement is something that is small in the overall scheme of things since there simply are no mind-crushing revelations to be discovered from putting them in an (alleged) chronological order.
The most one can say for such an effort is that it would be interesting, speculative, but ultimately of little significance.
I think this is awesome. I’m writing my thesis over Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy (what still divides us and what doesn’t). This books will, I hope, help me with that thesis.
We are having a series about the Early Church Fathers in our Church, taught by our Priest. Is there a reliable Catholic source online to view some of the letters from the Church Fathers. I see that the Original Catholic Encyclopedia has great information about the Fathers but I’m not seeing the actual text (for example, we just talked about Clement’s letter). I looked at the New Advent site but Father was concerned because it was compiled by an individual, there was a note about editing being done, and for example, the false letters were included under Clement. Anyway, it would be great to have a source our parishioners could go to if they want to read the letters online.
catholicmom2010: Four Witnesses by Rod Bennett is a great book with extensive quotes from 4 of the early fathers, Clement being one of them. Not sure about an online source though.
This pass over on the images is really cool.
I regret to inform you that the icon you tag as “Pope St. Gregory the Great” is, in actual fact, of Saint Gregory Palamas — a strange figure to feature on the cover of a book of Roman Catholic apologetics!
Jimmy – great work on the videos and I am excited about the book! The mouse-over doesn’t seem to work in Firefox.
Dan: Are you sure? We tried it with Firefox here at the office, and it worked just fine. What should happen is this: When you mouse over the face of one of the fathers a box should appear with that father’s name. Then when you click on it it will open a new window with that father’s biography. Maybe it will help if you try again and move the mouse more slowly and make sure it goes right over the faces.
Jimmy, is it too late to correct the icon for Pope St. Gregory the Great? Like Esteban mentioned, the current icon is of St. Gregory Palamas.
I’ve fixed the image so that St. Gregory Palamas is now correctly identified.
Unfortunately, it is too late (at this point) to change the book cover as the book is already in print. Perhaps a future edition can address this.
He is ironic on this cover, though the Original Catholic Encyclopedia notes: “At first he opposed the Latins, but eventually he wrote in defense of reunion, of the Filioque, and the papal primacy.”
Also, he is apparently venerated as a saint in some Eastern Catholic churches (e.g., Melkite ones).
As mentioned before, the choice of the individuals for the cover was made by the artist who was using primarily aesthetic criteria.
It looks as though the ‘aesthetic criteria’ used by the artist was ‘whatever looks like it belongs to the Orthodox Church’.
To my eyes it appears that the artist cut and paste various Orthodox icons into one page then just inserted a custom mandorla around each Saint’s head. Notice that the writing on the scrolls are all in different languages and that the icons are written in different styles.
Is this what happened? If so, why did you want to make the book look Orthodox?
Finally Jim, icons are not meant to be asthetic.
What is this referring to?:
“At first he opposed the Latins, but eventually he wrote in defense of reunion, of the Filioque, and the papal primacy”
I am unaware of what the encyclopedia is talking about. Could you please provide some examples?
Thanks.
Jimmy,
What do you know about a new book called ‘The Holy Bible In It’s Origianl Order’. It’s getting a fair amount of play in Protestant circles but is going more mainstream with full page ads in a number of conservative poliitcal magazines?
The claim is that church fathers changed the original 1st century order of the Bible for “mysterious” editing reasons. And that the restored Bible conforms to the order recognized by most scholars.
Any insight you have would be appreciated.
Doug,
I have limited information about the book. It was produced by a former affiliate of the Worldwide Church of God (Herbert Armonstrong’s group) which was sufficiently heretical to cease being Christian (it has since been reformed but not all of its former associates have gone along with the theological changes).
As to putting the Bible in its “original order,” there have been similar efforts in the past (e.g., putting the passages of the Bible in the chronological order of the events they describe). These are interesting but of little consequence.
The exact order in which the books of the Bible were written is ultimately unknowable. We simply do not have enough information to pin down the exact order.
Jews and Christians have, over the ages, used a variety of ordering schemes based on varying criteria which are obvious (e.g., St. Paul’s general epistles are arranged from longest to shortest, followed by his pastoral epistles, arranged the same way).
The precise arrangement is something that is small in the overall scheme of things since there simply are no mind-crushing revelations to be discovered from putting them in an (alleged) chronological order.
The most one can say for such an effort is that it would be interesting, speculative, but ultimately of little significance.
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